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Old 05-16-2009, 05:09 AM
 
Location: California
42 posts, read 174,710 times
Reputation: 27

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^ Yeah, but you can't be too self-assured if your beliefs are supported by solid reasoning. And I've got solid reasoning to back my statements. My article about how an a death with no afterlife would be experienced is well-supported. We can safely assume this so long as no one actually points out flaws in my argument that can't be refuted. And I'll be writing articles to support the other things I've talked about on this thread.
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Old 05-16-2009, 05:54 AM
 
Location: Indianapolis
4,323 posts, read 6,028,298 times
Reputation: 677
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kid EH View Post
Science doesn't need to prove the existence of God. And I highly doubt that God would want his existence to be proven to the living. Science and God will never meet in the middle, and I hope you can accept that. There won't be anything but positive outcomes from accepting ths. Although science and God do not explain each other, you can embrace both at the same time without fear. Science does not threaten Christianity and God's existence will never be disproven. But the rejection of science threatens Christians.
I accept that you disagree and I have no problem with that. I just see it differently based on what I have been taught by spirits.

Actually, God does want the living to see and know Him. This can be done through the soul perception. When we raise our spirtuality to the same level as God's, we then can see and know him through our souls. Belief in things cannot do that but belief and faith in God, can. Through Divine Love, God's very substance, we can raise our soul level to His and become like HIm.
God is not religion and God does not base what we are to learn on religion. He is energy and when scientist discover that same energy, they will meet in the middle.


A great saying from one of the beings I learn from:

“Encourage your Children to Learn about God,
Your Scientist to Discover His Laws,
Your Travelers to Admire His Creation.
Now teach your Gifted Ones to hear His Words—
I am Athena, who loves you.”
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Old 05-16-2009, 05:58 AM
 
Location: Bradenton, Florida
27,232 posts, read 46,686,882 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kid EH View Post
And I have a concrete reason for saying that! I'm an agnostic, so I wouldn't say I "know" something unless I really meant it. And the truth is very reassuring. I think if everyone thought the same way, then no atheist or agnostic would be scared of death.

Here's what I mean:

If we only have one life to live, then death would mean total non-existence forever, right? Well doesn't the same apply to the period of time before were born? We didn't exist then, either. So we've actually already been dead for billions of years, and not once during that time did we ever feel bad (or even bored)

Here's a quote from Mark Twain: "I do not fear death. I had been dead for billions and billions of years before I was born, and had not suffered the slightest inconvenience from it."

And the more you think back on your experience of pre-birth, the more clear it becomes that a death with no afterlife ought to be the least of our worries. Not only did you never suffer, but you never even wished you were alive! Dead people never feel bad for themselves, and they're never jealous of the living. We won't feel anything at all, obviously. But doesn't that mean we have nothing to fear?

This topic is actually a brief summary of an article I posted on my website. I have a lot more to say on this (more than I can fit in one post). If you're interested, here's the link: I Know What It's Like To Be Dead (And So Do You) (http://www.kideh.com/article1.html - broken link)
My point is, that we really shouldn't be afraid of death at all. If you're not convinced, then read my article! I think I really have a positive, and persuasive message.

Let me know if I've said something you don't agree with. I've thought this through, and I guarantee you that I can defend my position.
This assumes the soul wasn't already somewhere else, providing life to another body. Ever hear of past lives and regression therapy?
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Old 05-16-2009, 06:21 AM
 
Location: California
42 posts, read 174,710 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TKramar View Post
This assumes the soul wasn't already somewhere else, providing life to another body. Ever hear of past lives and regression therapy?
Like I said before, I'm only addressing what death would be like if we have no souls. I even mentioned that in the post you quoted, when I prefaced my argument by saying, "If we only have one life to live...."
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Old 05-16-2009, 06:29 AM
 
Location: Bradenton, Florida
27,232 posts, read 46,686,882 times
Reputation: 11084
Right, if we set enough limits on it, we can make anything seem possible...
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Old 05-16-2009, 08:45 AM
 
Location: California
42 posts, read 174,710 times
Reputation: 27
Actually, I make only one thing seem possible by setting limits. I'm saying: if we have no souls, then death can only feel like pre-birth. By limiting the discussion to the experience of death with no afterlife, I've demonstrated that there's only one way that experience can feel. It's a hypthothetical scenario that leads to a single, concrete conclusion.
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Old 05-16-2009, 12:08 PM
 
Location: DC Area, for now
3,517 posts, read 13,267,579 times
Reputation: 2192
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kid EH View Post
Actually, I make only one thing seem possible by setting limits. I'm saying: if we have no souls, then death can only feel like pre-birth. By limiting the discussion to the experience of death with no afterlife, I've demonstrated that there's only one way that experience can feel. It's a hypthothetical scenario that leads to a single, concrete conclusion.
Once again, there is no feeling. Feeling requires a body and a mind. Nonexistance doesn't feel. It is a fairly silly posit. Once you take away the hypothesis of a soul that somehow exists and has thinking ability without a body, the whole argument goes away.
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Old 05-16-2009, 05:29 PM
 
Location: Bradenton, Florida
27,232 posts, read 46,686,882 times
Reputation: 11084
That's true. In your scenario, there is no "knowing" before or after death, because the brain only works in the living.
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Old 05-16-2009, 05:34 PM
 
Location: OKC
5,421 posts, read 6,508,493 times
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There is no evidence that there is a soul. If you believe there are souls in humans, you might as well believe fly's and fish have souls, too. Maybe a tree has a soul? A puddle of mud?

If one wants, they can believe that inside every rock there is the soul of a lemon, waiting to escape and go to heaven. But there's no evidence that is true. Similarly, there is no evidence that there is a soul in humans.

For humans, every bit of thinking comes from the brain. When the brain is damaged, there is no soul that magically steps in to do the thinking for you. Every bit of pleasure, pain, happiness, sorrow, memories, logic, sensory input, etc., is dependent upon the electro-chemical reaction in your brain.

The concept of a soul was useful before we understood a little bit about the brain. It is a pre-17th century understanding of what makes us sapient. But there's no reason to believe that any longer. There is no magic ghost living inside of you, just like there isn't the magic ghost of a lemon living inside a rock. It's all superstition that contradicts the way we know the world works.
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Old 05-16-2009, 05:36 PM
 
Location: Bradenton, Florida
27,232 posts, read 46,686,882 times
Reputation: 11084
Quote:
Originally Posted by Boxcar Overkill View Post
There is no evidence that there is a soul. If you believe there are souls in humans, you might as well believe fly's and fish have souls, too. Maybe a tree has a soul? A puddle of mud?

If one wants, they can believe that inside every rock there is the soul of a lemon, waiting to escape and go to heaven. But there's no evidence that is true. Similarly, there is no evidence that there is a soul in humans.

For humans, every bit of thinking comes from the brain. When the brain is damaged, there is no soul that magically steps in to do the thinking for you. Every bit of pleasure, pain, happiness, sorrow, memories, logic, sensory input, etc., is dependent upon the electro-chemical reaction in your brain.

The concept of a soul was useful before we understood a little bit about the brain. It is a pre-17th century understanding of what makes us sapient. But there's no reason to believe that any longer. There is no magic ghost living inside of you, just like there isn't the magic ghost of a lemon living inside a rock. It's all superstition that contradicts the way we know the world works.

Why can't we just supply the brain with electricity, and bring back the dead? In death, the electrical activity of the brain ceases, so all we should have to do is apply electricity, right? That's the scientific answer.

Apparently, there's something more than that.
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