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Old 09-06-2009, 09:47 PM
 
1,272 posts, read 1,600,183 times
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Sky Cake: The relation between morals and religion:


YouTube - Patton Oswalt - Sky Cake
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Old 09-06-2009, 10:10 PM
 
Location: NC, USA
7,088 posts, read 13,060,058 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrBlueSky_ View Post
Sky Cake: The relation between morals and religion:


YouTube - Patton Oswalt - Sky Cake
When actions are made or not made out of fear of retribution, it is not moral action.
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Old 09-07-2009, 02:59 AM
 
Location: Western Cary, NC
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Christopher Hitchens said, “It is immoral to lie to children; it is immoral to lie to ignorant and uneducated people.”
This leads to the natural conclusion of religious organizations, who claim to teach morality, actually being the groups with no morals. In past personal debates I have had the moral question asked, and the person saying atheist had no basis for morals, and thus had no reason to have morals. Their conclusion was the fear of retribution was the reason humans lived moral lives. As a Secular Humanist I found this logic insulting to the species and to me personally. I saw the lies of religion as a fraud, and the lives lost because of those lies as human’s greatest example of immorality to not only man, but to the planet.
I question if the search for the Oswalt “sky Cake” and only that “Sky Cake” is not an example of lost morality or morality never found. How can organizations who approved of slavery, rapes, killing of children, stoning people, and putting knowledge and truth in a position of being evil be anything but immoral and evil themselves?
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Old 09-07-2009, 05:59 AM
 
Location: East Coast U.S.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cncracer View Post
In past personal debates I have had the moral question asked, and the person saying atheist had no basis for morals, and thus had no reason to have morals. Their conclusion was the fear of retribution was the reason humans lived moral lives.


Do you subscribe to moral relativity?

If so, how do you respond to the Nazi Nuremberg defense?

What right did other nations have to inflict outside moral conditions on the people of Germany?

Quote:
Originally Posted by cncracer View Post
As a Secular Humanist I found this logic insulting to the species and to me personally.
Great. Here is an opportunity for you to set the record straight.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cncracer View Post
How can organizations who approved of slavery, rapes, killing of children, stoning people, and putting knowledge and truth in a position of being evil be anything but immoral and evil themselves?
Answer: They can't.
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Old 09-08-2009, 01:24 AM
 
Location: South Africa
1,319 posts, read 1,856,038 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tigetmax24 View Post


Do you subscribe to moral relativity?

If so, how do you respond to the Nazi Nuremberg defense?

What right did other nations have to inflict outside moral conditions on the people of Germany?




Great. Here is an opportunity for you to set the record straight.



Answer: They can't.
Invoking Godwin's law means you have already lost the argument
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Old 09-08-2009, 11:12 AM
 
Location: Richland, Washington
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A moral act done with the intent of reward is a moral act morally worthless.
Religious people often have a very sociopathic view of morality. They don't know the difference between right and wrong so they need an authority figure to give them a list of moral prescriptions. The frightening part of religious morality is that the only reason many believers don't rape, murder, rob etc. is because they think god says no. Most religious people go through a period of doubt in their life though. When the fear of punishment goes away, then so will their already juvenile standard of morality. This seems to say that alot of religious people are merely ticking time bombs that should be locked away in an underground prison before they can go and do any harm.
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Old 09-08-2009, 04:39 PM
 
Location: East Coast U.S.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by justme58 View Post
Invoking Godwins law means you have already lost the argument
...and failure to address the point probably means that you have no argument.

If there is no argument, how can I possibly lose?
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Old 09-08-2009, 04:57 PM
 
Location: Bellingham, WA
9,745 posts, read 14,209,884 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by agnostic soldier View Post
The frightening part of religious morality is that the only reason many believers don't rape, murder, rob etc. is because they think god says no.
I don't think most would actually do those things without God, but they like to claim that without God one is left without morals and so any deplorable act is perfectly acceptable to the nonbeliever. This insinuates that they would do such horrible acts without God, but since the moral code of society doesn't really come from a deity, most actually wouldn't. Of course, there's also the fact that anyone who murders and/or rapes another person, robs a store, etc. is pretty likely to get caught and be punished for the crime, so that's probably the biggest deterrent. But aside from that, when I stopped believing in God I didn't suddenly consider doing any of those things, nor have I considered it since. But Christians would say it's because God has given us morals ingrained in our very being. Of course I don't agree with that.
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