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Old 10-01-2009, 08:02 PM
 
Location: East Coast U.S.
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Atheist - From Gk. atheos "to deny the gods, godless," a - "without" + theos "a god."


Agnostic - From Gk. agnostos "unknown, unknowable" a - "not" + gnostos "(to be) known."

 
Old 10-01-2009, 11:41 PM
 
Location: Metromess
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The definition of 'atheist' is now commonly understood to mean one who does not believe in a god. It doesn't mean that one must be sure that there is no god, it being so difficult to prove the negative. I can't prove it beyond the shadow of a doubt, any more than I can prove that there isn't an Earth-sized planet made of solid rhodium in the Triangulum Galaxy. In both cases, the probability is infinitesimal.
 
Old 10-05-2009, 06:28 AM
 
Location: S. Wales.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boxcar Overkill View Post
I can understand why people would be agnostic.

I can also understand why someone who is an atheist my call themselves agnostic to avoid the bigotry.

Agnostic and atheist have a common sense of skepticism of any supernatural claims, (in general). So we get along well.
You may be right there. In fact, though people mean various things by 'agnostic' the concepts matter more than the definitions.

Some mean a rather vague or weak theist or one who isn't sure about god but thinks it a probablility or just likes the religion. Such people (rather like 'unthinking atheists' [TM]) are fair game for the evangelical product.

If they manage to avoid that, I suppose they will either drift through life being a sort of census - Christian or an unpracticing Deist. If they do think about it, they will come to realize that, as they don't really believe, logically, they must be atheist.

Tiggiemax, remarkably, pointed up the correct definitions. Agnosticism in correctly a knowledge position (as evolution is correctly the theory of the development of life) and agnosticism (not knowing about 'God' - or any god) logically implies the belief position of atheism, since it is illogical to believe in what does not know, and more importantly, what really has no good supportive evidence.

Agnosticism is nevertheless going to be miss- taken as referring to a believer who is not religiously active, for one reason or another, just as 'evolution' is often miss- taken to mean a naturalistic (and therefore, 'Godless') explantion of Life, the Universe and everything.
 
Old 10-05-2009, 06:47 AM
 
Location: Riachella, Victoria, Australia
359 posts, read 655,862 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Habsburg View Post
Do atheists think agnostics are indecisive wimps?

Do agnostics think atheists go too far?

If you're in one camp, share your views on the other.
I think atheists are wimps.

Not believing in something they believe doesn't exist. Perhaps wimps is being kind to that camp. Insane might be closer to the mark.

And agnostic are a pain in the ass. Intellectuals. Believe they have the perfect answer. That can't be right because of this. And that can't be right because of this other this. Therefore I am a supreme intellect.

The only possible answer is the impossibility of infinite space. Finite space within that impossibilty is matter. Hello.
 
Old 10-05-2009, 07:15 AM
 
Location: S. Wales.
50,081 posts, read 20,528,855 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by manygeese View Post
I think atheists are wimps.

Not believing in something they believe doesn't exist. Perhaps wimps is being kind to that camp. Insane might be closer to the mark.

And agnostic are a pain in the ass. Intellectuals. Believe they have the perfect answer. That can't be right because of this. And that can't be right because of this other this. Therefore I am a supreme intellect.

The only possible answer is the impossibility of infinite space. Finite space within that impossibilty is matter. Hello.
I think your post would be more persuasive if you got agnostics and atheists the right way round. Surely you mean agnostics are the wimps and atheists the pains in the ass?
 
Old 10-05-2009, 07:31 AM
 
Location: Ostend,Belgium....
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LOL @Arequipa....that's OK I'll remain insane, stupid, whatever...oh and definitely a wimp, yeah!
 
Old 10-05-2009, 08:06 AM
 
Location: S. Wales.
50,081 posts, read 20,528,855 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MaggieZ View Post
LOL @Arequipa....that's OK I'll remain insane, stupid, whatever...oh and definitely a wimp, yeah!
You may be right there. I am and remain, a wimp. An uncompromising, card - carrying and aggressively evangelistic, extremist and zealously in-your-face WIMP.
 
Old 10-05-2009, 08:11 AM
 
Location: Wisconsin
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I, think agnostics generally smell nice, at least the ones I've met. Which is something that cannot be said for all people.
 
Old 10-06-2009, 05:46 AM
 
Location: Riachella, Victoria, Australia
359 posts, read 655,862 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AREQUIPA View Post
I think your post would be more persuasive if you got agnostics and atheists the right way round. Surely you mean agnostics are the wimps and atheists the pains in the ass?
Not sure that I am arguing or wish to be persuasive.

But no. The right way around.

An atheist defines him or her self by what they don't believe in. Not by what they believe in. An atheist, by definition says what isn't true. But does not feel a responsibility to say what is true.

Agnostics are the pits though. They preen their intellect and offer nothing constructive.

An agnostic says the only true belief is you can't know the truth. Then they dedicate themselves to proofing their point. But with all their superior intellect, they do not try and find the truth. They are a real pain in the ass.

Unless you aspire to truth, what is your intelligence doing? Fair enough, the universe is self creating but once you allow to much right of passage to either atheists or agnostics, you are allowing passage to not self creation, but the false belief of supreme creation.

See where I am coming from, arequipa. If there is no god, it is illogical to have any belief systems that begin with an acceptance of the possibility of god.
 
Old 10-06-2009, 07:12 AM
 
Location: S. Wales.
50,081 posts, read 20,528,855 times
Reputation: 5927
Quote:
Originally Posted by manygeese View Post
Not sure that I am arguing or wish to be persuasive.

But no. The right way around.

An atheist defines him or her self by what they don't believe in. Not by what they believe in. An atheist, by definition says what isn't true. But does not feel a responsibility to say what is true.

Agnostics are the pits though. They preen their intellect and offer nothing constructive.

An agnostic says the only true belief is you can't know the truth. Then they dedicate themselves to proofing their point. But with all their superior intellect, they do not try and find the truth. They are a real pain in the ass.

Unless you aspire to truth, what is your intelligence doing? Fair enough, the universe is self creating but once you allow to much right of passage to either atheists or agnostics, you are allowing passage to not self creation, but the false belief of supreme creation.

See where I am coming from, arequipa. If there is no god, it is illogical to have any belief systems that begin with an acceptance of the possibility of god.
Ah. Ok. I stand corrected. I misunderstood you. You are right here.

"An atheist defines him or her self by what they don't believe in."

An atheist is such because they do not believe in any god. It is true, but a bit misleading as it implies that is all and everything an atheist is. In fact the average atheist is everthing else and the non -belief bit is really unimportant - or would be if the theists didn't keep trying to tell them they should be religious.

You are dead wrong here, though. "But does not feel a responsibility to say what is true."

Atheists - what I call thinking atheists - feel a great responsibility morally and factually because they are the only ones responsible for their morals and finding out how to discover and arrive at the truth about anything becomes of paramount importance. That's why logic is so important in apologetics.

That of course is not the same as 'Truth', which is how I think you are using the term. That means 'Faith'. Agnostics (and atheists too, since they are very much akin in not finding the Bible a suitable source of knowledge) are very concerned with finding the truth (in the sense of 'what is'.) but are not much concerned with Faith as that is a very poor reason to believe anything - because you want to believe it or have been brainwashed into believing it. Such 'truth' is no better than the absurdities of scientology.
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