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A little part of me wonders why any of us are surprised. There's always been harsher standards on the A&A's with respect toward offending others, even in our very own forum. The only thing I'm surprised about with this new rule is the actual degree that we're expected to allow believers to poke and provoke us without fear of any kind of backlash.
This is PC run amuck. I understand the rules that apply to all forums, personal attacks, etc.
I understand the some words that become ****** and even then that is not context driven, sometimes that word is legitimate.
But PC censorship is one of the problems with our society today, PC censorship is a stepping stone to idea censorship.
This may surprise many believers, but I get really ticked with the censorship of "Christmas". There are threads about the "office winter party" in the christian forum; the Christmas parade is a thing of the past, it is now the 'holiday parade' but Santa is still the last float in the parade.
A little part of me wonders why any of us are surprised. There's always been harsher standards on the A&A's with respect toward offending others, even in our very own forum. The only thing I'm surprised about with this new rule is the actual degree that we're expected to allow believers to poke and provoke us without fear of any kind of backlash.
We see many posts from those that believe the universe is approximately 6,000 years old. Could this not be construed as a great deal of disrespect toward Steven Hawking, Carl Sagan, and all of the renown scientists around the world, and the volumes and volumes of information we as a species have learned from and benefited from their discoveries?
I can't challenge their "beliefs" (and they are nothing BUT beliefs) while they have a free hand of simply dismissing or ridiculing hard science?
"Be civil, no personal attacks, flaming, or insults. We may attack ideas (politely) but we do not attack the speaker of the idea. Be careful with your words, there is a point where being direct crosses a line into blunt, in-your-face hostility....If you disagree with something, say so, but explain WHY."
-Terms of Service.
^^ The purpose behind this subforum is for atheists and agnostics to be able to discuss/debate those issues/topics which are pertinent to atheists and agnostics. No one is questioning that.
What is being addressed in the OP are those posts in which members write such things as the following: "Those Christers (or reference to a member's screen name) obviously have tin foil on their heads! Let them whine to their Sky Daddy all they want."
There's a difference.
I think this is a big mistake, you already have 800 people who have read this thread, if polls are even close 60% of those on this CD sub-forum are non religious, and it looks like 80 of them feel strong enough about it to comment on the censorship. I suspect you will be buried in alerts for your word violations, and I bet the christian forum will be swamped with angry A&A forum posters sending those alerts. Censorship to enforce any political correct efforts is always a poor excuse for attempting to control the direction of a movement. This is no different, and being polite or acting as if we care about a christians belief system would be as big a fraud as their religion. The idea of trying to censor the forum reinforces the feeling of posters like “spotted1” in post NO. 81, I agree with him, and object to any form of censorship no matter what you’re good intentions are or were.
I can't challenge their "beliefs" (and they are nothing BUT beliefs) while they have a free hand of simply dismissing or ridiculing hard science?
I think you are missing the point . . . but I do agree that clarification is needed as I said in my earlier post.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD
Where the distinction seems to get cloudy (and this needs clarification) . . . is when people so strongly SELF-IDENTIFY with a belief system or group that any denigration of the system or group is SEEN BY THEM as an attack on them. THOSE should NOT be considered personal attacks, IMO. Posts attacking atheists and atheism are NOT personal attacks . . . neither are posts attacking Calvinists or Calvinism . . . (For examples of personal attacks which are rampant on the A&A forum . . . see the posts to or about C34.)
I'm not asking you to change doctrine or dogma, of which I know you have no power over, I'm asking for equality. Imagine if you will, that the first time I came upon a Christian and that that individual, not knowing me, asked me if I believed in their God and I proceeded to tell them about my beliefs and culture upon which, this good Christian, proceeded to verbally assaulted me with words such as, you're an immoral heathen, your soul is going to burn in hell, you worship of false deity, and other such verbal assaults that will be quoted from their sacred book, and I am unable to respond in such a way that I deemed necessary to defend myself, now that's not equality. Respect is a two-sided coin, and should be earned by both sides. Equality is fairness for both sides.
PT, as you probably know, I am not a believer, and.... I have not, in any way, ever had a problem with the way you explain or use your faith. I have had no other feeling than that you are a wise and just man. You use your religion as a tool, a salve for the soul, some of the others use theirs as a weapon.
I believe people can get along on a personal level. Having said that, I stood in line to get Mercury Cougar's soup yesterday. I didn't reveal my true identity for the soup would have flown on my face
Thanks, AC, you have provided a perfect example of the hypocrisy of christers*, used here to differentiate from the other 99%, yet not being addressed by the mods. Nor are you alone, as it describes a minority of so called christians.
And you somehow in your mind you attack MC following the meaningless statement, at least to you, about people getting along. You're trying to take the high ground here, but you weren't out helping the homeless, an Atheist was and you use that to attack. I think your deity would be looking down going," tsk tsk tsk AC, you're making me look bad", if it actually existed.
* it would be unfair and inaccurate to use the word christian, as this example does not represent the beliefs, actions, or words of 99% of those that consider themselves christians.
"Be civil, no personal attacks, flaming, or insults. We may attack ideas (politely) but we do not attack the speaker of the idea. Be careful with your words, there is a point where being direct crosses a line into blunt, in-your-face hostility....If you disagree with something, say so, but explain WHY."
-Terms of Service.
^^ The purpose behind this subforum is for atheists and agnostics to be able to discuss/debate those issues/topics which are pertinent to atheists and agnostics. No one is questioning that.
What is being addressed in the OP are those posts in which members write such things as the following: "Those Christers (or reference to a member's screen name) obviously have tin foil on their heads! Let them whine to their Sky Daddy all they want."
There's a difference.
How is saying 'christer' 'sky daddy' etc.... even a personal attack? If it is not aimed at any person in particular it is not a personal attack by definition. Some statements are made in general. I don't see that as violating any tos. You mods are not making sense.
The fact is that censorship always defeats its own purpose, for it creates, in the end, the kind of society that is incapable of exercising real discretion. ~Henry Steele Commager
Quote:
The only valid censorship of ideas is the right of people not to listen. ~Tommy Smothers
Quote:
The peculiar evil of silencing the expression of an opinion is, that it is robbing the human race; posterity as well as the existing generation; those who dissent from the opinion, still more than those who hold it. If the opinion is right, they are deprived of the opportunity of exchanging error for truth: if wrong, they lose, what is almost as great a benefit, the clearer perception and livelier impression of truth, produced by its collision with error. ~John Stuart Mill, On Liberty, 1859
Quote:
If we don't believe in freedom of expression for people we despise, we don't believe in it at all. ~Noam Chomsky
Quote:
I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it. ~Voltaire
Rules maintain order and continuity. Straying off topic, personal attacks, copyright stuff, etc. etc.
In response to my post #9 in this thread, the reply was.......
Quote:
Originally Posted by june 7th
They don't. Pure and simple.
You are denying the use of an apt descriptive noun, a christian who does not act christ-like = christer, it would seem reasonable that, if they find the term offensive, they would stop acting like that. I, as an atheist, find the "christer" attitude offensive.
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and you use that to attack. I think your deity would be looking down going," tsk tsk tsk AC, you're making me look bad", if it actually existed.
Some wise people on censorship
