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Hi,
One of my really close friends in LA is pro life and believes that marriage is between 1 man and 1 woman. He professes atheism. A few months ago I started a thread here asking if there were pro life atheists and if they received any flack for their stance, and some said that they did, while others said it wasn't an issue amongst their atheist friends. So, I was just wondering, is their any tension between socially and fiscally conservative atheists and more liberally minded ones? Just curious. Thanks
Well of course. Atheists are like everyone else, except for the belief in god part.
I personally feel free to disagree with anyone at all. Their theism/atheism only enters into it when that is the subject under discussion.
I will admit, for the most part when I think atheist, I think liberal.
When I think Christian, I think Conservative. I know there are exceptions to the rule but it's pretty much a knee-jerk reaction.
For the most part, I'm libertarian when it comes to social issues: abortion, same-sex marriage, etc.
I prefer a single-payer health care system or socialized medicine and I think we should have regulations that prevent a corporatist monopoly on our economy.I think there are dangers in big government AND in big corporations. Of course, big government means different things to different people.
I was getting my eyebrows waxed today and the nail place always has CNN on. It just so happened Obama was on and he said, "Some want to say I want big government. I don't want big government, I want smart government." I can agree with that.
Some may think single-payer or socialized medicine makes big government but I don't think that's necessarily true.I want a government that works for people and not Big Business.
I think Socialists and Libertarians would get along on a lot of social issues but definitely not on economic issues.
Per the boldfaced quote of yours above (i.e., Obama's quote):
A few years before Obama said that, I had heard former New York City Mayor Michael Bloomberg, a moderate Republican who then became Independent, say the following (may be somewhat paraphrased by me, as I am going by my memory):
"I don't believe in big government and I don't believe in small government. I believe in necessary government."
In other words, to whatever degree it really is necessary and sensible for government to play a role, it should; and to whatever degree it is not necessary or is even uncalled for, it shouldn't.
To my view, both parties are conservative. One detests personal economic freedom, and the other detests personal moral freedom. Both parties seek to consolidate power into centralized mechanisms of control. That makes them conservative. A liberal prefers power at the individual level. The nature of that power shouldn't be an issue if what is important is the distinction between individual powers and centralized powers. The two parties in the United States have lost that distinction and now only bicker about what freedoms and powers to snatch away from the people next.
In case any of you don't already know this, the late Christopher Hitchens (perhaps the most preeminent public atheist in the world . . . or, as he chose to call himself, an antitheist), was anti-abortion and also strongly supported the U.S. invasion of Iraq and other U.S. military efforts to battle Islamic extremism and terrorism. He may have had other conservative-leaning stances as well that I am just not knowledgeable about (off the top of my head).
yes there is in MHO. Some of us know the information and other understand the information. we can only claim "no your god type". the others are so mad at religion, probably due to abuse, that they hate all theist.
Liberal: atheist
conservative: anti theist.
I like the idea that theism has no bearing on political affiliation, but I don't think it's true in regards to the United States current two party system. Republicans cling heavily to religion making it a platform for election. In my opinion they exploit it to gain votes, but genuine or not, you often here republicans speaking of a christian nation.
So even if an atheist aligns politically with republicans I believe religion creates a wedge between them and the party. They may just ignore it, label themselves as something else, or claim being an independent while consistently voting republican.
However, this is more about the two parties than liberal vs conservative as we don't really get both sides in the US.
Hmmm, I don't know about atheists, but I am agnostic and a conservative, so pretty close. But it truly is how one defines conservative. I am of the Libertarian view. I believe highly in fiscal conservatism and also think the government should be small and stay out of people's way. On the social side, I think people should be left alone to do pretty much what they want so long as they are not breaking laws. As what conservatism has come to mean today, then I am not a conservative, yet at the same time, I am not a liberal. Libertarianism, is much closer to what conservatism originally meant and definitely what republicanism (notice the little "r") meant when Jefferson was President.
Do I clash with atheist liberals? Certainly and it's the same clash I have with Christian conservatives. Liberals, to me, are the opposite side of the same coin as Christian conservatives. Liberals want to tell everybody what they should say, what to think, whether or not you should smoke, what you should eat, whether or not you should own firearms, how you HAVE to accept this or that (not realizing the difference between tolerance and acceptance), how you should worship (or not actually), how the government should do everything and BTW hard-working tax payer, you have to pay for it all. I see no real difference in them and the Christian conservative...they just have a different slant on it.
"I think people should be allowed to do anything they want. We haven't tried that for a while. Maybe this time it'll work" -- George Carlin
Hi,
One of my really close friends in LA is pro life and believes that marriage is between 1 man and 1 woman. He professes atheism. A few months ago I started a thread here asking if there were pro life atheists and if they received any flack for their stance, and some said that they did, while others said it wasn't an issue amongst their atheist friends. So, I was just wondering, is their any tension between socially and fiscally conservative atheists and more liberally minded ones? Just curious. Thanks
Well, atheists are mostly liberals with a sizable libertarian minority (I've read that libertarians and Communists are statistically the most atheist political ideologies), but there are more specifically conservative leaning atheists.
Conservative atheists and agnostics include Colin Ferguson and Barry Goldwater was also probably an agnostic given some of his statements about religion and God.
Although atheists tend to be Pro-Choice (myself included), being Pro-Life isn't strictly a religious stance. Keep in mind that the Catholic Church only started to oppose abortion (previously they allowed it until the mother could feel the fetus moving) when they learned about more about the development of pregnancy and how the fetus forms within the womb.
The main split in the atheist and agnostic movement has to do with Progressives polluting the movement and trying to make it about political issues as opposed to free thought, rationalism, science, critical thinking, and the like. They are the goobers who started the "Atheism Plus Movement" or "A+heism" a few years back because an atheist blogger named Rebecca Watson was asked out for coffee by a guy on an elevator and she made a video about how "creepy"* it was and about the pervasive sexism of the atheist movement. Richard Dawkins and a few other prominent atheists basically made fun of her for turning a man politely asking her out into an ordeal. This resulted in a split where a portion of atheists broke away and started their own movement dedicated to political correctness, Feminism, progressive politics, and support for the nanny state. Oh, and this isn't a right-wing criticism. They lashed out at mostly liberal members of the atheist community for not being Left-wing enough for their liking.
*In her own words, she said the guy said, "I heard you speaking on stage and you seem really interesting and I would like to get to know you better. Would you like to go out for coffee?" and she turned him down and he walked away. She added after telling of her harrowing experience with "Guys, don't do that. That's REALLY creepy" which left me thinking how it would be possible to ask out Horseface, I mean, Rebecca Watson without being creepy.
Location: In a little house on the prairie - literally
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I am an atheist. That has nothing to do with my basic conservative, or probably better defined, libertarian, viewpoints.
People try and slot you, but like many people, my perspective depends on the issue.
Big government? NO way! Deficits, No way. Same sex marriage? Sure, who cares, it does not affect me or society.
Abortion... I'm conflicted on that one. Nothing past the first trimester unless the mother is in danger. Before that? I get the reason for abortions, but when it starts running into more than one, the person needs to start thinking of other birth control practices. In the cases of rape or incest? No problem with that at all.
I don't like the fundies proselytizing to women who may chose to have an abortion, but I am not opposed to having a short wait time for reconsideration (say 3 days), where options including adoption are discussed. I just don't think abortion needs to be rushed into, yet on the other hand, I also understand that for many women it is a dramatic decision. Like I said, I am conflicted on this issue.
Freedom of religion? Yeah, just don't step on my toes pushing it. Keep it in the home or church, synagogue, temple or mosque. It doesn't belong in the public.
Universal healthcare? You bet. I'm Canadian. It works here.... we spend 1/3 less as a percentage of GDP on healthcare, with better results... we live longer. I don't get the aversion that any Americans have for universal healthcare. Obamacare? A disaster that only helps those with preexisting conditions (a good thing), and the insurance companies. If you recall, none of them seemed to have any objections to the plan.
So, am I conservative or liberal? I tend to consider myself more conservative, with rational thought thrown in.
*In her own words, she said the guy said, "I heard you speaking on stage and you seem really interesting and I would like to get to know you better. Would you like to go out for coffee?" and she turned him down and he walked away. She added after telling of her harrowing experience with "Guys, don't do that. That's REALLY creepy" which left me thinking how it would be possible to ask out Horseface, I mean, Rebecca Watson without being creepy.
The fact that creeped her out was NOT the words, but the fact that this was in an elevator at 4 am and he asked her to coffee in his hotel room. Also, she had already said she was very tired and was going back to her room to sleep. He didn't walk away and she couldn't walk away since they were in an elevator.
The rebuke was quite mild and the harassment about it continued for quite a wild on various blogs. Minimizing the experience of women in situations like this is common because men have no understanding of what women put up with. It's the fact that she was trapped in an elevator with a strange man hitting on her that is creepy.
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