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Old 03-21-2010, 07:39 PM
 
Location: Unfortunately, in the south US
169 posts, read 561,062 times
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Does anyone else see the Christian holidays as a way to trick children into believing (and fearing) in things you can't actually see such as... God. I never thought about this until recently, but Santa, Easter Bunny, Leprechauns, even the toothfairy (not religious, I know) are invisible characters just like god and jesus. My child is very wise beyond her years anyway, and we have chosen to celebrate all of these types of holidays so she wont miss out on the fun, but she knows the characters are not real and we have come up with our own reasons to celebrate them. I just think it is interesting to see the connection between religion and trying to teach your child to fear Santa's wrath if you are not good and the Easter Bunnies wrath if you don't go to sleep so he can visit etc. Just thought I would mention it and see if anyone else had thought of this connection.
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Old 03-21-2010, 08:43 PM
 
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No. We taught our two that people believe in many different things but we always tried to explain why they do.

Our children learned from a very early age how the christian celebrations and symbols slowly came into being....they understood that the Winter Soltice celebrations (feasting on all the perishable food prior to the harsh weather) pre dated Xmas because we talked about the big bang, evolution, the cave men, the beginning (and endings) of civilizations, the development of religions as a methods of control, the wide variety of religions and history in general as normally as we talked about playing in the park.

We wanted them to understand how they fit into the world around them...the great chain of life, if you will. We also wanted them to somewhat understand and tolerate the beliefs of others...however silly they may sound to us.

We also took them (occasionally) to the local Methodist Church because I wanted them to know the classic bible stories...they needed to understand the points of reference frequently used in the wider community. But we did and still do, treat the bible as literature, ancient literature, not as "the word" of some imaginary guy-in-the-sky.

Visits to museums, aquariums and zoos were much more frequent.

We did not unload all of this on our daughter and son in one giant discussion...it unfolded naturally over many years. I have found that children will absorb what they can, then when they are ready for more they will ask questions.

We sure didn't want our children to miss out on any of the fun of Santa, the Easter Bunny or the Tooth Fairy so we explained symbolism to them. I remember pointing out the Shell gas station's use of their shell as a symbol for a brand of gas and the gas, food and lodging symbols on freeway signs; since they grasped this quickly it was easy to show how the Easter Bunny, while not real, became the symbol of the renewal of many life forms every year in the Spring.

So they enjoyed all the nonsense and did not miss out on any of the excitement which grips and thrills the little ones at celebrations.

So no, not tricks...just paractices which need careful and gentle explanations suited to the child's ability to comprehend.
.
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Old 03-21-2010, 08:47 PM
 
Location: southern california
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im sorry i dont see the connection between fat men in red suits, rabbits and jesus.
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Old 03-21-2010, 10:52 PM
 
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The difference I see is that my children do see Santa and the Easter Bunny, I have the pictures to prove it. They also have tangible evidence that they exist, they leave gifts and hide eggs, they even leave money under their pillow.

It is also a good lesson, when they get older, on how to weigh evidence and decide that the evidence does not support the conclusion. It's an early lesson in deductive reasoning. Once they get to a certain age they start seeing hints that everything isn't on the up and up. That those guys at the mall are just people in costumes, that Santa can't get around the world in one night, etc. That maybe the things people (including their parents) are telling them may not be the whole truth and that it's Ok to question that truth.

The way I see it, these things that make a childhood magical are win-wins all the way around.
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Old 03-22-2010, 05:50 AM
 
Location: Kentucky
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I've never felt that enjoying Santa or other figments of the imagination were a means of 'tricking' children, nor have I felt the need to remove these make believe characters from their lives. Children need make believe, it's a very important part of their mental development, and it's never a negative to foster pretend play. Nobody's ever started wars or persecuted others over beliefs in the Easter Bunny or Tooth Fairy. My oldest daughter used to have an imaginary friend named Lola. Eventually she outgrew Lola (around the time her sister got to be old enough to play with her and she wasn't playing by herself anymore, actually) and decided she didn't need Lola anymore because Lola wasn't real. I am confident the day will come when she will decide the same about the other imaginary characters in her life, though personally I hope it's not for a good long time (she is only 6, after all) because I sure have a lot of fan playing pretend.
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Old 03-22-2010, 06:14 AM
 
457 posts, read 755,461 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by southern no more View Post
Does anyone else see the Christian holidays as a way to trick children into believing (and fearing) in things you can't actually see such as... God. I never thought about this until recently, but Santa, Easter Bunny, Leprechauns, even the toothfairy (not religious, I know) are invisible characters just like god and jesus. My child is very wise beyond her years anyway, and we have chosen to celebrate all of these types of holidays so she wont miss out on the fun, but she knows the characters are not real and we have come up with our own reasons to celebrate them. I just think it is interesting to see the connection between religion and trying to teach your child to fear Santa's wrath if you are not good and the Easter Bunnies wrath if you don't go to sleep so he can visit etc. Just thought I would mention it and see if anyone else had thought of this connection.
I sort of agree with you. I suppose the word “trick” is really the key word. I feel most families are more on the lines of traditions than trickery. To me if a family wanted to trick there kids they would/could make up a new fantasy character to scare kids into submission rather than use an existing one. It is this misguided belief (Santa etc…) that pushes me to explain to my daughter the truth behind Santa but to also explain the positive affects of such religious holidays too. We do not participate in Easter, it serves no purpose to me; nothing more than a huge guilt trip! IMO! We try to keep our daughter off of sweets so the Easter Bunny isn't welcome either.
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Old 03-22-2010, 09:10 AM
 
Location: S. Wales.
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It's something that I had to think about. The common jibe by theists 'You say you're not a Christian, but you celebrate Christmas.' Was easily dealt with (1) but it did raise questions about the extent to which one can avoid becoming frankly worrying in obsessively banning anything having a religious 'taint' in a culture steeped in it or allowing Theism to use holidays as a way of pushing the religious message?

I suppose Hallowe'en/trick or treat gives the clue. We can allow the kids to enjoy the frisson of the witch and ghost thing and also allow them to indulge in the magic of that rather silly tale about the man in the funny costume handing out sweeties to kiddies (no, not the local priest) and the other silly one about the star and the wise men. We can also explain that silly stories is all that they are.

And thus there is no reason why the atheists cannot even allow their kids to join in Diwalli, Kathein and any enjoyable Muslim festival (assuming they have one that is actually fun). While the theists can ignore those and sit holding their banners (1...again).

(1) 'I take the four days off, sure. If we had four day's holiday for Muhammad's birthday, what would you do? Take the leave or sit outside the office door holding an 'I am not a Muslim' banner?'

Last edited by TRANSPONDER; 03-22-2010 at 09:33 AM.. Reason: altered 'and' to 'or '
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Old 03-22-2010, 10:06 AM
 
8,679 posts, read 15,244,892 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by southern no more View Post
Does anyone else see the Christian holidays as a way to trick children into believing (and fearing) in things you can't actually see such as... God.
I don't think it's a deliberate attempt to get kids to believe in things they can't see.

At best, I think it's more a way of instilling the concept of getting rewards for being good, and being passed over for being bad.

At the very least, it's a handy way for the parents to get well-behaved, if not outright angelic, kids for a couple of weeks per year. Hey, if morality doesn't do it, bribery will.
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Old 03-22-2010, 11:08 AM
 
Location: New Mexico
4,974 posts, read 7,349,309 times
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Wow, I really enjoyed reading this. I'm not atheist/agnostic (and don't have kids), and have only spoken to one atheist parent about this subject, who told me "I wouldn't lie to my children, we don't teach them about Santa Claus since he's not real." I assumed most atheists felt that way. I responded that even I "believed" in Santa Claus, as a "spirit of giving" to children. She looked at me like I was a wacko (which I probably am). I suspected that my friend just wanted to take all the credit for the gifts she bought her kids and didn't want them to think for a minute that some old man with a beard was responsible.

So, folklore does have a place in non-religious households. Good to know.
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Old 03-22-2010, 03:21 PM
 
Location: Unfortunately, in the south US
169 posts, read 561,062 times
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Thanks for all the great and well thought out responses. It is an interesting subject to me since I have a little one. It can be very challenging raising a non Christian child in the south and it is always refreshing to read these chat boards to help me remember we are not alone in our thinking!
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