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I'm not enjoying the role as Devil's Advocate so I'm not going to play it anymore. We all know that, like it or not, Christians view the whole thing differently. That's all I meant.
Like I said before, scenes like that one and the others shot at that location made me uncomfortable. My facebook friend list is full of people just like that - from my former life. It's uncomfortable to remember that I used to be like them, and that many good, intelligent people would make the same statements, have the same reactions, and argue along the same lines. It evokes a strange response in me.
I'm not much of a Bill Maher fan but I like the show. It was funny to see the faces of those who were stumped. The Jesus guy was the most fun to watch, he was into it and he really didn't seem to mind Bill's doubt which I find was extremely accepting of him (Jesus), being he was representing Jesus.
Bill asked a lot of the same questions I asked, the reception was similar.
Ignoring of course, that there was nothing truly willing or great about it nor was there any real sacrifice made.
After all, Jesus' sacrifice was part of Bible god's convoluted plan therefore he really had no choice in the matter any more than the people/puppets who tortured him did. And there was really no sacrifice since Jesus was promptly "resurrected" (even though he never really died, being God and all) and went right on back to heaven.
Nope, not even close to the sacrifices of say, a soldier who jumps on a grenade to save his comrades, the FDNY crews on 9-11-2001, or all the fathers on the Titanic who gave the lifeboats to their wives and children.
He died a brutal criminal's death when he had done no wrong. He died on a violent planet (I don't believe he was God. He was God's son) so that we could link back to our Creator one day.
God did not kill his son. We did.
Bill Maher is an intelligent and witty man, but he does not have all the answers. He will turn to dust just like everybody else.
I'm sure Religulous is funny, just like everything else Bill does.
He died a brutal criminal's death when he had done no wrong.
That happens pretty much every day on this planet.
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He died on a violent planet
See above
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(I don't believe he was God. He was God's son) so that we could link back to our Creator one day.
A rather ridiculous method for linking to the creator, no? I'm pretty sure that the intelligence that created the universe would come up with infinitely more creative and less violent means to do so. Like ohhh I don't know - just dropping in and saying hello?
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God did not kill his son. We did.
No, God was in fact 100% responsible (in the myth anyway). It was all part of his plan, remember? God setup and orchestrated the entire situation to begin with. No way to weasel out of that one.. sorry!
Excellent doc. My favorite moments were from the interview with Reverend Jeremiah Cummings:
Bill to JC: "I know, I think it's very interesting
that you're a Christian now,
you were a Muslim
and when you get your clothes,
you buy them like a Jew.
Also - Jeremiah Cummings shows he could have a career as a comic as well:
Excellent doc. My favorite moments were from the interview with Reverend Jeremiah Cummings:
Bill to JC: "I know, I think it's very interesting
that you're a Christian now,
you were a Muslim
and when you get your clothes,
you buy them like a Jew.
Also - Jeremiah Cummings shows he could have a career as a comic as well:
Jeri: I always dress well.
Bill: I see! Are those gators?
Jeri:Those are lizards.
Bill: Lizards?
Jeri: Yes.
Bill: What do they run?
Jeri: They don't run. They crawl.
That was a great bit. For some reason--the suicide bombing thing had me laughing--and I don't know why. It was this "no **** this is what happens" moment, and it left me in stitches
That happens pretty much every day on this planet.
Yes, innocent men die on a violent planet every day. Well, maybe innocent regarding the alleged crime. But, it is WHY he had to die that mattered, not so much how. I think Mystic explains it better than me. Something about removing the veil so we can access the Spirit, which many were without in the past. People were wandering around in the dark, worshiping idols and the sun and such. Sacrificial love was a new concept, for the most part. Lightning bolt throwing gods and goddesses were the norm. Christ said anything good comes from above. I am from above, you are from below. I think we were supposed to understand that there is a big difference between how things work in the physical realm down here and how things work in another realm. What we see is not what is.
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Originally Posted by QuixoticHobbit
A rather ridiculous method for linking to the creator, no?
Not really. If the barrier between us and God was some kind of spiritual ignorance and darkness, then breaking that up so some of us could see the LIGHT or LOVE through sacrificial love isn't really ridiculous at all.
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Originally Posted by QuixoticHobbit
I'm pretty sure that the intelligence that created the universe would come up with infinitely more creative and less violent means to do so. Like ohhh I don't know - just dropping in and saying hello?
If God is not human and is in an unseen realm (kind of like atoms. People used to laugh about those, didn't they?) how do you expect him to show up?
If he could manifest as human, what kind of human do you want him to manifest as?
If he popped up and started creating in front of your eyes would you follow him? For how long?
Quote:
Originally Posted by QuixoticHobbit
No, God was in fact 100% responsible (in the myth anyway). It was all part of his plan, remember? God setup and orchestrated the entire situation to begin with. No way to weasel out of that one.. sorry!
Yes, I believe God orchestrated the whole thing. Somewhere along the line he let the universe have a tad bit of freewill; though I am not a big believer in the kind of free will that most people believe in. Allowing fallen creatures to kill your son to show how love and forgiveness works even in the middle of a brutal planet such as ours is, well, revolutionary. This happened in the Roman Empire, a pleasant place to be sure.
And I am a believer in the Reconciliation of all Things, so I guess I'm not your typical Christian, but I'm sure it's easy to laugh and scorn Christianity and any other belief system after watching the actions, hypocrisy, and ridiculousness that comes from religion. I've done it myself.
I'm a little out of my element here, and I don't want to proselytize, as this is forbidden on this forum, so I will bow out. I just check the Atheist/Agnostic forums every now and again because my son is an agnostic and we have had MANY conversations on these matters. I can't help myself sometimes.
No, God was in fact 100% responsible (in the myth anyway). It was all part of his plan, remember? God setup and orchestrated the entire situation to begin with. No way to weasel out of that one.. sorry!
Well, there is an interesting side plot to all that. Because God sent Jesus to die on the cross we no longer have to slice the throat of sheep and doves and such and burn them as a sacrifice to God (because he likes the smell).
Well, there is an interesting side plot to all that. Because God sent Jesus to die on the cross we no longer have to slice the throat of sheep and doves and such and burn them as a sacrifice to God (because he likes the smell).
I'm told the veal is excellent. It comes highly recommended.
Religion is a astonishingly simple concept that has spread its tendrils into every cranny of society. Could one make the argument that Jesus taught sacrificial love? Perhaps--it is spurious at best--but perhaps. Was it a lifting of a spiritual veil so humans can access a new side of their non-physical but indescribable plane of existence that can only be described using physical terms (but really, it's not physical)? No. That's the tendril of religion penetrating rational thought.
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We all know that, like it or not, Christians view the whole thing differently. That's all I meant.
so I will bow out. I just check the Atheist/Agnostic forums every now and again because my son is an agnostic and we have had MANY conversations on these matters. I can't help myself sometimes.
