Go on...you know you want to. (believe, born, Creator)

[AREQUIPA]

There's nothing that I like better than reading Deconversion stories. Like Lucy Van Pelt said, sorta sad, but inspiring..

There may be a collective groan, but there's nothing we like better than talking about ourselves.

So, I invite all atheists, Agnostics, Deconverts, and assorted hellspawn to

POST THEIR DECONVERSION STORY.

Which includes never having been converted in the first place.

Because I think that all atheists of the kind that will be posting here - the ones that have thought about it (that's why I use the term 'Thinking Atheist') - have had a moment of revelation when they realised that they did not buy into the theist claims.

Let me start off with this extract from my Autobiography 'The wonderful story of my fantastic life' (unpub.)

In my youth when everyone was saying that we should never have pulled out of Suez, there I was reading 'The Bible in pictures'. I can only recall one picture..some goon in scale armour with a neat liitle slit in his belly dying on a battlefield in Judea or Meggido or some such place. Even then, as far as I can recall, I didn't see it as anything other than another fairy story.

I can remember at my church school learning the catechism (unlike the periodic table, I cannot remember a word, now) and there was the regular trooping along to church. I can remember collecting the little religious stamps, but I still didn't believe any of it.

I recall a flurry of excitement at school when the JW's announced the end of the world. It didn't happen of course and I have never taken such claims or predictions seriously since. Nor the Asteroid/comet/millenium bug panics. And the second coming doesn't get my benefit of doubt, either.

I can also remembering some teacher making a point (he must have been a biblebod) that if, a pupil says he doesn't believe in God, why does he put down 'C of E' on a form? I can remember that as it made me resolve never to put down 'C of E' ever again. The term 'census christian' has stuck with me ever since.

I did very well in religion class. Top marks. Mainly because I was fascinated by the maps showing Assyria and Babylonia. I think that was when I became fascinated by ancient civilisations. But I never believed any of the religion stuff. It just didn't seem reasonable. The RI teacher's suggestion that Jesus might have cured a blind man because spittle - laced mud has curative properties..well, I was just amazed that someone who was appointed to TEACH us could come out with such rubbish.

I think that's when I discovered that nobody is beyond question, no matter what their authority.

Some years later, in my rock and pop years, I had on Radio Luxembourg. The only station carrying Pop. In between we had this awful Americ...well, Transatlantic..erbot giving us 'The Good News About The World Tomorrow!!'

I can recall two things. One was about the watchmaker. "If you do not believe a God made all that, I Do Not Respect Your Intelligence!" he ranted.

Also how unbelievers can disprove the Bible. God says Tyre will never be rebuilt. So all you atheists go and rebuild it. He knew that was a pretty safe bet as they wouldn't waste their money on doing that any more than they'd club together to check out Tom Campbell's sunken city claims.

But I couldn't refute the apparent truth that Tyre was destroyed and dumped in the sea. Prophecy seemed to have come about. It wasn't until the last few years that I realised that the fellow was giving us a rather tweaked version of the facts. But, (Axiom) Hey, what do a few untruths matter, if some souls are saved?

Then there was the Last Days prophecies. I still have the pamplets: - '1975 in Prophecy!' You should have seen it, with the Jack Chick pictures of the myriad dead through God - sent pestilence being bulldozed into pits and the pictures of peasants in Soviet Russia all fearfully listening on clandestine radios to the Truth that the West was ignoring at their peril!!!. It was alarming but I was skeptical. What could I do but wait and see?

Well, nothing happened, of course, but that was the last time I gave any credence whatsoever to claims of the end of the world, second coming or any such stuff.
I did give some thought to the whole god - thing, though. I can remember beginning on 'which God' (comparitive religion) and Deistgod somehow emerging out of a god -of - ll religions. But it seemed as remote and impersonal as the galaxy and I couldn't see what Pantheist/Deistgod had to do with religion. I couldn't see why Intelligent nature would want to incarnate itself as a sacrifice to itself just in order to allow itself to change its mind about some rules it had imposed in the first place. But that's a later development.

I recall about this time was when I had a 'deconversion'. It was odd, as I didn't have anything to deconvert from, but I suppose the claims of Christianity were still in my mind. I was reading the 'Upanishads' on a bus and it suddenly hit me that they sounded as convincing as anything in the OT. So why was Christianity any more valid than Hinduism or any other religion? I can recall very clearly that it felt as though a great weight had slipped from my shoulders. I'm still not sure why, but I'm sure that was the Deconversion feeling. I suppose that, at that time, Christianity ceased to have any hold and I was free to look at all the options.

Some years later, I began looking for a religion. I can't quite remember why but it just seemed that I wanted to discover which out of all the religions which was the one I could most comfortably say I 'Was'?

With the inability to accept the claims of Christianity and (while rather admiring the purity of its monotheism, as opposed to the clutter of demigods and saints of catholicism) realising that the trappings of Islam did not commend itself, putting the religions of the Book out of court, I looked east. I was rather charmed by Hinduism but I really couldn't take all those gods seriously. Ok, they were just representations of the 'reality'. So what religion came closest to that 'reality'?

Sufism seemed to hit the nail on the head with the image (though I believe that it was pinched from Hinduism) of the blind men and the elephant. Each had a bit - tusk, ear or tail - and they disagreed about what 'god' was like, as none of them could see the reality. That seemed to fit in with my deistgod idea. But I was bewildered. So what? I mean worshipping this thing seemed pointless. Philosophy apart, what was the point of religion?

A year or so after that, I found out that Buddhism gave me everything that Sufism did but without the need for a pointless god. Religion/prayer/meditation/rituals were a means to an end - tools for achieving enlightenment and for a specific end, getting off the wheel of rebirth.

Some years later, I flew (still in search of ancient civilisations) to Java where I had to put in my religion on the disembarkation form or be regarded as a communist. I put 'Buddhist' for the first time. Not that it did me much good since that made me a communist in their eyes anyway. But after that I did practice as a Buddhist in sriLanka, Thailand and Burma.

In Burma I got married and joined the Sangha, mainly to please my wife. I must say that I didn't feel too guilty about counting down the days till I could resign the monkhood as my brothers in law were all doing the same.
It did enable me to travel to south Burma, to Kyaik -htiyo in Moulemein during the time when it was off limits to Foreigners. I reckon I was the first westerner they'd seen in decades, let along one in a purple robe.

So, let's fastwind a couple of decades (Jeses, how old IS this guy?) To when I was getting Christianity pushed at me by a work colleague.

I said that I didn't buy it and said why. You will be able to imagine the evidences put forward for the truth of the gospels. I had to consider them, as it was a Problem, rather like the problem of the Bounty Mutiny, Waterloo and Rama IV, all of which I was studying at the time. It started with a consideration of the gospels and that required comparing them. That was a shocker and was the basis for all my debunking of the religious claims. Redaction criticism was what I was doing and the Official story just fell apart in front of my eyes. I reported my findings to my colleage and was astonished to find that he simply ignored everything I'd found apparently on the basis of Blind faith.

It astounded me at the time, but, dear friends, I have come to learn that it is absolutely the preferred way of maintaining Faith as practiced by theists.

I found that Buddhism also foundered under the same scrutiny as there was not an atom of good evidence for Karma and it seemed to be unworkable in any practical sense.

Then I finally got onto the internet and made contact with other 'Thinking Atheists'. I can say that Cliff Walker (positive atheism) was where I served my apprenticeship and that bod truly had the T - shirt. He's seen all the arguments and had trashed all of them.

Since then, I've infested various boards, Theist and atheist alike and here I am. Still sympathetically non believing in Buddhism, still agnostic about Deist - god but failing to see why it needs a religion anyway and now, thanks to Harbour's 'Intelligent person's guide to atheism', happily preaching the Theory of Everything as regards a rational and science - based worldview, wherein anything without good evidential support is not worthy of belief, and religions, cults, pseudo - science, prognostication - fakers and fringe - medicine snake - oil peddlers should have their claims thoroughly tested.

There should then be a new Nobel prize, for someone proving the supernatural or a fringe - science. There would also be heavy penalties for anyone making claims they were unable to substantiate.

Over to you, unbelievers.

[tilli]

I can also remembering some teacher making a point (he must have been a biblebod) that if, a pupil says he doesn't believe in God, why does he put down 'C of E' on a form? I can remember that as it made me resolve never to put down 'C of E' ever again. The term 'census christian' has stuck with me ever since.

What does "C of E" mean?

Edit: Hmm, Church of England maybe?

[achickenchaser]

Although I was never a true believer, I was brought up in a fundamentalist environment and it did take a while to break away from that.


Well, let's see here. Where to start

Ever since I could remember there was always talk in my family about being saved and who went to what church. It was only a matter of time until it was my turn to make that decision and come to know the Lord. It happen when I was, I think, somewhere between 11-12 years old. A man from either my mom or grandma's church came to talk to me, alone of course on the front porch. He asked me if I'd been saved and accepted Jesus and I said no. When asked why not, I answered something along the lines of I don't know (saved from what, I was thinking?). When asked if I wanted to, I said no (lol). He wasn't gonna let me get away that easy, so I finally went along and prayed the sinner's prayer and was "saved." We went inside and he introduced me as a new member in Christ to my mom, grandma, and a few of her friends. He also assured them that it was real. Oh.....how little he knew

Then came the fun part. The next step was going to talk to our local preacher about my decision, and set up a date for baptism. He told me how wonderful it was the decision I had made, and pointed out John 3:16 to me. That Sunday night, I walked down the isle and was introduced in front of the whole church as a new believer in Christ. This is a process where you stand there, usually at the end of services, and everyone comes and shakes your hand and congratulates you. Others who live in the Bible belt south will know what I'm talking about. The following Wednesday night, I was baptized. Finally, now can I please get on with my life.

Well, no, you can't you heathen kid. Now it's time for Sunday school and maybe a Christian education, as opposed to being brought up in the secular school system (more on that in a minute).

For the sake of brevity, I'll just say we were taught everything you see here at C-D at church: the truth is the truth, all non-Christians are going to hell; even some Christians who believe the wrong way, it takes more faith to believe in evolution than to believe Jesus rose from the dead and so on.

Moving on down the line....

Then came my teen years. Due to me not being able to stay out of trouble in public school, my parents decided it was time to send me to a private Christian school. That's what I needed. Oh boy, did I ever! It certainly made an impression on me, although I don't think it was the desired one. After pledging to the Christian flag every morning and singing some lame christian song, our teacher would usually have some words of wisdom for us from the Bible. It usually had something to do with sin and avoiding hell. Being teenagers a lot of the time it had to do with sex. Lasciviousness is the worst sin of them all, you see. I wasn't sure sin had a rating scale until then

The thing is, most of the things we were taught we radical. They made my Baptist preacher and Sunday school teachers look like hippie liberals by compression, not that I have anything against hippie liberals.

We studied the Bible first thing every morning and memorized Bible verses every week because that may be all we have left one day. We were taught to "be prepared" when we go off to secular colleges and such. They'll try to change you!!! The end was also just around the corner. These people seriously believed they were gonna be raptured up into heaven at any minute. Anytime something really bad happened it was seen as a sign (sound familiar?).

I could type out a 1000 or more words about the nuttiness I witnessed there but....

Moving along......


Luckily I went back to public school my senior year, and as soon as I graduated and gained a little freedom, I left all that nonsense behind me and never looked back.


Did I ever believe? Even for just one minute? Well, okay. Maybe just for a day or two. Being told that you're different now does make an impression on a young mind. Did I feel different? Yeah....for a whole two or three days. It didn't last very long. I guess I didn't have enough faith.

Nothing had really changed. The main point I want to make is, I never felt like some wretched sinner that needed saving, not until I was taught I was. Even then it didn't work.

and so here I am. I think I've gone on long enough to leave out anything that happened between my formative years up to the present time.

I am absolutely an atheist when it comes to things such as organized religion and man-made holy books. On whether there's a creator or not or some existence after this one, I'm an agnostic.

[AREQUIPA]

Originally Posted by tilli

What does "C of E" mean?

Edit: Hmm, Church of England maybe?

Sorry..Jargon You are correct.

Chickenchaser (when you catch it it gets stuffed, right?) quoth:

I said no (lol). He wasn't gonna let me get away that easy, so I finally went along and prayed the sinner's prayer and was "saved." We went inside and he introduced me as a new member in Christ to my mom, grandma, and a few of her friends.

Now I understand the term 'The celestial railroad'

[Rafius]

No de-conversion here. Born atheist, raised atheist, lived for 60 years as an atheist...and as far as I can tell, will die atheist. Viva atheism!!

[manderly6]

I went through the motions as a kid. I can honestly say I never for one second believed any of my religious teachings. I think my parents were pretty much going through the motions as well.

So I guess I would say I have always been an atheist.

[catman]

I halfway believed as a kid. Then at 19, I became convinced that Catholicism was the True Church, with the influence of a girl friend (but I really did believe it). I went to catechism classes for several months and became a Roman Catholic. A couple or three years later, the relatively liberal Pope John XXIII died and was replaced by Paul VI, and the Church immediately went back a few hundred years. The defining moment for me was when he issued prohibitions on birth control and abortion, ex cathedra, so no practicing Catholic could dispute them. Since I knew that these were wrong, and since the full credibility of the Church was staked on them, it caused me to question the entire rotten structure. So, in 1968, after thinking it all over for a time, I became an unbeliever. I've been God-free ever since.

[Eresh]

It all began around the time that Santa and the Easter bunny didn't make sense to me either. I recall that someone said jesus was all around watching over me. One day my mom saw me spinning around really fast (I was trying to catch him spying on me) and asked what I was doing. I told her and expressed my doubts and went further to say that I thought some grown man spying on me seemed weird. She neither agreed nor disagreed. Looking back I suspect she was/is a 'closet agnostic', especially since she never had me baptized.

[Lamplight]

I was raised in a near-text book Christian fundamentalist household. We attended church three times per week, plus twice a year gospel meetings and once a year "vacation Bible school" which I hated as a child. Most of my friends were raised in similar families, so for the most part it's all I knew. As a child, I was never sharp enough/bold enough to question any of it, and since everyone I knew believed it all (as far as I'm aware), I just assumed it must be true. Plus I was almost constantly told it was all literal truth and had it drilled into my head that even questioning it was a horrible sin. I believed it all.

But for me, there was one problem: I despised going to church. I felt terribly guilty about it and I never told anyone, but I honestly hated attending services. Especially the whole twice on Sunday thing. We were just here this morning! Why did we need to go back?! As a young child, I generally spent the entire service drawing pictures or dozing off. As a teenager...well...I spent most of the service drawing pictures and trying not to doze off. Of course, even if my mind was elsewhere I still picked up on enough of the preaching and teaching that I thoroughly understood what was being taught. And I still thoroughly believed it all. But when I became old enough to drive, I discovered that I could pretend I was going to another church with one of my friends, and then just drive around for an hour and a half. This beat going to church, but I also felt incredibly guilty for doing it. I tried to justify it by telling myself that God wouldn't want someone there if that person wasn't enthusiastic about it. What would be the point in that? But years of indoctrination telling me that attending church was a must for Christians left me with doubts for my justification for skipping church.

So the skipping of church services continued for a few years, although occasionally I'd have streaks of good attendance if I felt guilty enough, or if I were trying to impress a girl at the time (). I considered myself a Christians, despite my meager attendance record. I studied the Bible (not as often as I should, I'd tell myself), I prayed every night, I even listened to Christian music. Then, my brother and I moved out of our parents' house and got an apartment together. Apparently he had skipped church a few times himself, and after moving out, we both stopped going entirely, and man was it nice to sleep in on Sundays! Without my parents around, I was no longer constantly reminded of church and religion, so I got to the point where I never really gave it much thought. I suppose I still believed in God, I simply didn't think about it. Ever. This went on for a year or two, when one day my brother and I were discussing something involving religion. That's when he said to me, "I don't think I really believe any of this stuff." This was huge, because he had been more fervently religious in the past than I had. He described to me the things that had led to him no longer believing, and they all made sense to me. I had already grown complacent in my beliefs, so now I wasn't afraid to question what I had been taught for years. So I started questioning and investigating. Before long, I found myself in the same boat as my brother.

Strangely, when I first realized I was an atheist, I still thought the Theory of Evolution was a crock. As a preteen we had been "taught" about it in church, and were told why it was so utterly ridiculous. All those years I had just assumed that was true, as well. But after deconverting, I realized that I should investigate the TOE for myself. After reading about the real theory, and not the Christian fundamentalist version, I finally understood it, and it made perfect sense to me. Not only that, but I was fascinated by it and many other areas of science. Now, at 31, I know that I want to go back to school to study these things. After high school, I attended college for two years until I dropped out, never declaring a major. Perhaps if I had learned to think for myself sooner, I could have stayed in school at age 20, and I could have been in a rewarding career by now. Thanks religion!

[Dusty Rhodes]

I think I started my road of disbelief about 9 or 10 yrs old. Too many conflicting stories, or outright contradicting tales. By 14 I quit making any pretense at belief, I attended church only because, If I wanted any kind of social life, it hinged on me going to church, no church, no movies on the weekend, no church, no allowance, then...no church, no use of car. I suspect I am not the only person for whom coercion has not worked as a conversion tool. Brow beating was even less effective. By the time I was in my early twenties, the parents never breeched the subject of religion to me. Coercion didn't work well once I had moved out and was living on my own. Sometimes I suspect my wife may have some sort of residual beliefs, she never gets preachy, doesn't attend any church. It's okay by me, she is as entitled to her belief structure as I am to mine