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Old 07-13-2010, 12:47 PM
 
Location: Fairburn, GA. (South Fulton County)
293 posts, read 1,103,795 times
Reputation: 99

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Quote:
Originally Posted by netdragon View Post
1. Cobb is clearly the best, on average. Clayton is the worst. I think there's a sticky post about schools.

2. Increase the number of wealthy citizens living there, increase the tax base and put more money into schools.

3. Clayton county can only improve from my perspective.

Hmmmm, if only this money were actully put into the schools instead of top-heavy positions within the schools and administration. Fulton County is really on my sh*t list right now because you are cutting and furloughing everything and everybody else but are paying these top heavy people to absolutely do nothing.

Don't know about Cobb being the best; Gwinnett seems to be the best right now because they aren't laying off as many teachers as Cobb has, plus they haven't had to cut pay and give as many furlough days as say, Fulton and DeKalb. Cut pay=low morale.
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Old 07-14-2010, 04:05 PM
 
7,845 posts, read 20,749,161 times
Reputation: 2851
If you are ranking school systems (or anything else for that matter), somebody is always at the bottom.
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Old 07-14-2010, 06:24 PM
 
16,645 posts, read 29,360,549 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DeaconJ View Post
If you are ranking school systems (or anything else for that matter), somebody is always at the bottom.
Yep.

Simple, yet smart (and needed) post.
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Old 07-16-2010, 08:59 AM
 
19 posts, read 64,408 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by equinox63 View Post
1. In your opinions, out of Fulton, Dekalb, Cobb, Gwinnett, and Clayton County School Systems, how does each rank overall on a scale of 1 to 5 (imagining that there could be no ties)?

2. What can (realistically) be done to get the bottom two school systems closer to the top?

3. What do you predict will come of the bottom two systems in the next 5 to 10 years?
Vouchers is the best answer. Next best is combination of magnet/charter school.

Voucher system is widely used in Europe(France, Belgium, etc.) and they regularly outrank us in basic literacy(grade school, high school).

We would be in lot of trouble, were it not for high rate of educated immigrants and excellent university system.
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Old 07-16-2010, 06:06 PM
 
Location: Atlanta
3,573 posts, read 5,292,152 times
Reputation: 2396
I don't think it's fair to compare Europe's school system to America's. In many of the countries they actually save money & vital resources simply by admitting as a society that not every child is college material...then rigorously testing them accordingly at some selected steps along their academic lives & then gently pushing them into schools more fitting of their aptitude.

The Western European model saves money in 4 ways: from college grants & loans not being given to academically unfit students who will inevitably drop out, remedial pre-college classes not taken, penal system costs from dealing with problem students in the school & from high school dropouts who may chose crime as a vocation of sorts, and resources denied from students who may have MORE potential academically than those who don't.

Because our American society leans very heavily on individualism, we will not even consider the notion of forcibly testing students into their proper education tracks, although there is an ad hoc system in some state, city, & local school systems of encouraging students to go to technical high schools or leave high school early to enter the workforce with GED in hand. Plus, I think there is the concern that too many minorities will be disporportionately shuffled into a less rigorous education career pipeline. The "Ad hoc way" always seems to be the American way of conducting business, unfortunately.

In short, I just don't think this problem of dealing with bad school systems can be ameliorated unless we as a society start making some hard choices. Throwing more money at the problem simply will not do it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by theinvisibleheart View Post
Vouchers is the best answer. Next best is combination of magnet/charter school.

Voucher system is widely used in Europe(France, Belgium, etc.) and they regularly outrank us in basic literacy(grade school, high school).

We would be in lot of trouble, were it not for high rate of educated immigrants and excellent university system.

Last edited by AcidSnake; 07-16-2010 at 06:36 PM..
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Old 07-16-2010, 06:19 PM
 
Location: Atlanta
3,573 posts, read 5,292,152 times
Reputation: 2396
Hate to say it Aries, but I am with Neil on that point. Countries in a lower economic standing than the U.S. have graduated more scholars, while at the same time they simply chose to devote more of their limited resources to students who prove themselves to be academically capable.

Quote:
Originally Posted by aries4118 View Post
Incorrect.
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Old 07-16-2010, 10:57 PM
 
16,645 posts, read 29,360,549 times
Reputation: 7577
Quote:
Originally Posted by AcidSnake View Post
Hate to say it Aries, but I am with Neil on that point. Countries in a lower economic standing than the U.S. have graduated more scholars, while at the same time they simply chose to devote more of their limited resources to students who prove themselves to be academically capable.
It's way more complicated than that.

And your assertions (ie, "graduated more scholars") are incorrect.
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Old 07-17-2010, 10:14 AM
 
Location: East Cobb
2,206 posts, read 6,874,736 times
Reputation: 924
Prosperous families produce successful students because, to the extent that genes matter, the parents typically have adequate genetic attributes to pass on (they're smart enough to be successful) and probably more importantly, they nurture their children with the right cultural attributes. The parents value education and inculcate great middle-class values and beliefs like self-discipline and deferred gratification. Middle-class kids are provided with encouragement and resources to get their homework done, and trained to believe that doing well at school is normal, expected and required for a happy adult life in which they will be a successful entrepreneur, skilled professional or artist of some kind, according to their talents and inclinations.

A school in a community that consists mostly or entirely of middle-class families doesn't really need to have anything super special in the way of staff and facilities to get great results. The North Fulton and East Cobb schools are successful primarily because their students overwhelmingly spring from the right kind of families.

On the other hand, if you're trying to educate the children of families who are in the cycle of generational poverty, you're fighting an uphill battle. Outside of school, your students' environment typically tells them that school doesn't matter. Copying the teaching methods of Walton High is pretty unlikely to make a high school in a high poverty area start producing Walton's SAT scores.

This is why wealth matters. It's a good predictor of whether students are likely to do well on school. However, as Neil and Acid are doubtless thinking, of course being rich doesn't make a person smart, and a poor child can be perfectly capable of succeeding in school. It's just that in the real world, most of the time the rich kid has a environmental advantage. And this is why I agree with some earlier posts on this thread which answer the question of "How can we make poor schools better?" by answering "Have students from richer families." It's a bit of a cynical answer, but there's a lot of truth to it.
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Old 07-17-2010, 10:30 AM
 
Location: Marietta, GA
7,887 posts, read 17,142,467 times
Reputation: 3701
Quote:
Originally Posted by waronxmas View Post
While it is true that the children of well educated people are usually well educated themselves, that is due to the parents having the understanding of what is necessary for the child to succeed and not all linked to their genes.
Well, I'm sure I'll get some people upset by saying this, but....successful people are generally more intelligent, and intelligent people have intelligent children, so how on earth can you say that genetics plays no role? That's absurd on its face.
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Old 07-17-2010, 11:47 AM
 
Location: Atlanta
3,573 posts, read 5,292,152 times
Reputation: 2396
I acknowledge that.

I would also hope that you acknowledge that it's way too simplistic to hope that just raising the tax base in any given school district will achieve better results for the students.

There are school systems in the U.S. that are not as wealthy as Atlanta's K-12 system but yet still manages to achieve the same results or better. Check this article out. It's just a primer to be sure, but I wonder where Atlanta stacks up if I did a little more research, eh?

http://www.forbes.com/2007/07/05/sch...05schools.html

Quote:
Originally Posted by aries4118 View Post
It's way more complicated than that.

And your assertions (ie, "graduated more scholars") are incorrect.

Last edited by AcidSnake; 07-17-2010 at 11:56 AM..
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