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In the latest few months, I've been doing a bit of research on intown neighborhoods, schools, real estate, etc. Based on my findings, this is what I've been led to believe:
As I'm sure we all know, back in the 1960s, Atlanta was heavily segregated and areas like Grant Park, Kirkwood, East Atlanta, Candler Park, Inman Park, and East Lake were like 100% white. In fact, an older guy at my job told me that Decatur had more blacks than all of the aforementioned placed combined back in the day. Is this true? However, with integration, came white flight and whites fearfully fled intown to the suburbs in droves while selling their homes to blacks at exponentially inflated prices (except for communities like West Buckhead and Druid Hills which remained heavily segregated due to sheer inaffordability and the practice of passing down family estates). This disparity can be seen most evidently today IMO along Northside Dr. as one transitions from sheer opulence to urban blight. This is also true along Monroe/Boulevard and Briarcliff/Moreland (but in lesser degrees due to gentrification).
However, in Kirkwood (for example) [still marginalized] middle class blacks moved into a community that was stripped of its infrastructure. And after spending exponentially more on homes that were worth far less, black Atlantans found it difficult to restore the community as the black version of its former self from scratch. Plus, you had the black flight of families barely above poverty making the move from the slums of Vine City or English Ave. to the opportunities of Kirkwood, East Lake, East Atlanta, or Grant Park, etc. thus flooding the communities with too many people. Then, of course, you have the '80s, and with it came the flood of drugs [by the government] into poorer black communities, thus ravaging Kirkwood, East Lake, Grant Park, East Atlanta, etc.
Then, in the late 80's to early 90's, was the second wave of white/black flight: Middle class blacks escaping intown Atlanta to Decatur, Stone Mountain, Clayton County, South Fulton, etc. while whites in those areas moved to far flung suburbs and exurbs.
Today, we have the movement of middle class suburbanites moving back into areas like Kirkwood, Grant Park, East Atlanta, East Lake, Oakhurst, etc. And while many poorer blacks where forced into Clayton and Dekalb counties due to rising taxes or by simply being bought out, many residents who "live in Grandma's house" still reside in these gentrifying intown neighborhoods, their kids and grand-kids attending Grady (and maybe Decatur high) beside affluent children from Virgina-Highland, Inman Park and Candler Park or Northern Decatur city.
The irony is that many blacks that have escaped to the bastions of black suburbia, such as South Dekalb and South Fulton cannot as readily take advantage of the opportunity to move back into "grandma's old neighborhood" because their property values have diminished while intown values have staunchly risen. There are mansions in South Fulton and South Dekalb that rival those in North Fulton, however, the values of these homes are significantly lower.
[But to be fair, I know or white professors who are kicking themselves because their parents sold their home in Candler Park due to white flight which is now worth three times as much as her spacious Gwinnett County home.]
Nevertheless, we all know black communities (regardless of class and income) appreciate at a slower rate than comparable white communities. Can anything be done about that?For example,what would a home in Hidden Hills (in Stone Mountain) be worth if the area was all white? Would it be the same if the area was all black with an identical class of resident? I don't know.
The double irony is that many suburban blacks are isolated in all-black communities and have little exposure, yet many kids are raised to emulate Jeezy, Juiceman, Flocka, and Gucci (who are all fake) and feel it is who they are to be "hood". What popular black people that they respect are telling them otherwise? And of course, if you live in an all-black community of $400k houses (that would be worth $600k elsewhere) and the kids try hard to act "'hood", it drops the values from $400k to $200k, then from $200k to $60k, and it becomes the hood. While shacks on Hosea Williams (in Grandma's old 'hood... where your mom worked to get you out of) would sell for $200k+. Bitter irony indeed.
Now my question is about the schools and communities. I believe that most middle class blacks live in the suburbs and would have a difficult time selling a home and moving intown (if they so chose). I believe that the majority of people/families moving into gentrifying intown communities are white. I also believe that the majority of the black people in these gentrifying intown communities are poorer blacks (many of whom have been there for decades). Is this the case?Does Kirkwood or East Lake (for example) generally consist of middle class whites and poorer blacks, and is this truly diverse if middle class black families are not noticeably represented?
Secondly, in time, with homes of increased value being passed down to their kids, more exposure, and more educational opportunities, do you think the descendants of that population of poorer intown black families (which I feel far exceeds the number of middle class intown black families) become affluent themselves? Ironically, the blacks in middle class suburbia may suffer due to poor schools, nepotism, and a youth mentality that longs to be in the most notorious 'hoods of the City of Atlanta, not knowing that many of the people who live in those notorious 'hoods, are becoming educated and edified. But don't get me wrong, I know crime, drugs, poverty, and this mentality exists among intown blacks on a large scale, but you get my point...
Is this an accurate representation or am I way off base here?
Now since IMO massive white flight on the scale that we have seen in the 1960's and 1980's is like a one time deal as the mentality of most Americans has changed significantly since them (for the most part). What are the long term affects of gentrification? Is it possible for a community to completely gentrify yet still remain very diverse?
Additionally, is a place really diverse if it is not also economically diverse? For example, if a community is 50% white, 40% black and 10% other races, yet 80% of those whites are wealthy and 70% of the blacks are poor, is that really a shining example of diversity? [Perhaps if there were more poorer whites and more affluent blacks.] Is this the case in East Lake, Kirkwood, East Atlanta, Edgewood, or Grant Park? It seems that the remnants of white/black flight along with gentrification has caused this sociological conundrum...
It seems that gentrification is a chance for integration to work the way that Dr. King initially intended for it to. But unfortunately, it is hard for the black middle class to participate.
I know I've said a mouthful and I have no problem with you correcting me if I'm wrong, but what are your thoughts on any of these issues?
Ease up Malcolm, you are thinking way, way too much on this. White flight started out of fear and the historical pattern of lower-class people moving into their neighborhood. Hate to break it to you but, this is not a new phenomenon. It happened to the Italians when they moved into middle-class neighborhoods up North over a century ago.....
There is an old saying up North, Blacks follow the Jews...while distasteful it was used quite often up North as that was what was considered the neighborhood breaker. The same concerns you have about "gentrification" are precisely the same fears they had about "****'s moving in"....
In short, Communism, Socialism, Classissim, you been smoken crackissim is thinking too much. People don't like others moving into their neighborhoods, period. Race has little to do with it except for the fact when you are the different race moving in?
This fear works both ways my friend. I don't see Blacks opening up the welcome wagon for the Tina Fey wannabes when they move into Grant Park, Cabbage town et al....it's usually condemned by those that have the majority in those neighborhoods today....
As for selling houses at inflated prices??? Now THAT is funny....I thought most of you complained that in those times, a person of color couldn't get a job let alone make a lot of money so tell me, where did these poor people get the money to move into these overinflated priced homes???
The homes go down in value historically whenever the color changes from White to something off-white. Let me repeat that before you pull your ghat and have a canniption fit. It's a FACT, not fiction. It's not saying one is racist when they point out this FACT...it's the same as saying the sky is blue.....historically speaking, whenever Blacks moved into an all White neighborhood, over time, the housing values diminished.....and as for your thoughts on true diversity, well, you seem to have a slant in your comments as you seem to equate diversity as equal in all aspects.
I guess you need to seek Bill Clinton's advice on what diversity is....is......and the difference between....for the record, most layman consider diversity as diversity of ethnicity, not economic....I'll leave it to those that while away their days at the universities to debate that point but, you won't get far telling the other 80% I"m wrong on this point....
Couple that with kids and their underwear hangin' out, ball caps sideways, yards of cloth that make up one pair of jeans and a vocabulary that those in Sudan might recognize and yeah, the neighborhood's value might start to slide a little....
Your reference to Stone Mountain. I have an answer. Stone Mountain was worth more before the recession of 1990-91 when Blacks started moving there.....now? Well, you tell me what the area is worth now??? Can't blame that on White Flight, Gentrification, ipso-facto, gluteus maximus, e-plurbus unum.....etc.....you have to keep the place UP and crime DOWN to keep values CLIMBING......k?
I think the drive-by's on Memorial/DUI drive had a lot to do with it to. That an perhaps the Loc-Dog image or as you say, hood image and murder, violent assault rates sky-rocketed might have had a bit to do with it as well....call me crazy but, when I look for a house and a little excitement in the neighborhood, uzi's, sideways nines and a kid that thinks he has a rason to act like an a-hole is not exactly high on my list of "must haves" for the neighborhood??? I believe in the motto, arrive alive.....might just be me but, it's the way I feel....
Call me whacky but, when a kid dons a hoody, Malcolm-X hat, and shades in July during a heat-wave chances are he is not exactly the choir-boy type and it might be good for me to subtly check my holster and un-snap it "just in case" things don't go so well during the interchange???
Ya think it's an accident that White Flight ever occurred in the first place? Stats don't lie. People do vote with their wallets, even whites...they have rights and opinions too you know....
As far as the escape, Blacks escaped for the same damn reasons....opportunity and the fact that a 400K house is nicer than one that costs 60K.....after all, in the nice neighborhood you tend to wake up with your car still in the drive-way unmolested along with your spouse, significant other and kids as well....just a thought....just throwing that out there.....we in the burbs like to call it a new phenomena; "Common Sense"....give it a whirl, you might see I'm right...after all, I"m sure you are open minded enough, studious enough, and care enough to investigate both sides of the story....
As far as moving in town, I think the kids like it because it's trendy and hope to make a return on their homes....kind of what 80 percent of America does when they buy a house...blacks too my friend....they would actually like to see it appreciate??? What a crime....oh, the humanity!
You might also note that the most famous and richest of Blacks tend to do very little with their communities when they leave them. Bill Cosby has been a lightning rod of common sense in the African American community and yet condemned wholesale for stating the obvious....be where you ain't....
I would applaud your comment on classicism in the Black Community. Funniest thing I have ever seen. I thought only Whites did that. Now, apparently, if you are black and don't have an SUV whoa...what will the neighbors say???? If I understand the current pecking order, Jeep Cherokees are the low end, Explorers and Expeditions middle with the crowining jewel being a White or Black Naaaaavigatttuh??
How am I doing? Close? Just curious.....talk about worshipping false profits.....bling bling this!
As far as that Government sponsored CIA, Gay Pervert Hoover inititative to drug the black man...shadddduppppp. you are boring me already!!! You give the government too much credit....remember, they couldn't get Viet Nam right....you thought they actually pushed drugs into a community so they could spend more on subsidies to bail them out??? If they had been that sharp they would have stopped at the ponit of giving the drugs....
People are people. Black or White and all colors in between. We tend to vote with our wallets, try to do the best for and by our friends and families and try to leave the house with a little profit later on down the road....nothing more, nothing less....we leave Pervert Hoover out of it and simply work hard, save, and try to leave a little more for our lineal decendants than when we first started out....
The drug wars in your culture are something YOUR culture created. Period. For once take responsibility for what you have done to your OWN people. And by the way, this is NOT new either.....ever heard of Al Capone? Bugsy Siegel, Myer Lansky? A couple of Italian and Jew New Yorkers who knew something about vice too my friend. And unlike your story, I don't blame the governemnt, I blame Capone and others who committed the crimes.
And for the record, if you or I had only this as an option over flipping burgers you can bet, you and I would probably be flipping little baggies and viles for a living too....we were just blessed and lucky...nothing more...and had I done something like that and got caught, I would have been as bad as those listed above...nothing more....nothing glorious or cool about it....period....just stupidity with a few extra bucks to show for it....and yes, the government had nothing to do with it....that's as ignorant as saying all those people who signed on to bad mortgages should blame the banks....don't be ridiculous....man up...take responsibility...I have yet to see one mortgage broker running down the street chasing your or I at gunpoint to sign a mortgage with 5pts rolled in along with a few other goodies to put you upside down day one....they signed, they should have paid for it.....
Tookie, and all the dead and imprisoned gang founders I see glorified on cable shows were simply criminal thugs who got caught and in some cases died. Much like the mob, good riddance. Don't glorify them, don't honor them because they threw a chicken or turkey out to the ones they victimized....they weren't nice guys....they were vultures who preyed on the weak and poor. Cheap shot artists....nothing more. Right up there with stealing SS checks from Grandma.
As it relates to neighborhoods and their changes and migrations, remember this, water seeks it's own level. It is based almost entirely on economics....as they neighborhood's wealth fluctuates, so does the populace.....period.....
Your activist overtones blemish what could be an interesting debate and civil discussion on the trends and changes in population densities throughout Atlanta over the last 50 years........nothing more.....while interesting and lively, it will not change the outcome or the future for that matter....it's just not on people's minds when shopping for a 3/2/2 fixer-upper on the weekends.
Get some rest....tomorrow's the first day of the rest of your life....
Ease up Malcolm, you are thinking way, way too much on this. White flight started out of fear and the historical pattern of lower-class people moving into their neighborhood. Hate to break it to you but, this is not a new phenomenon. It happened to the Italians when they moved into middle-class neighborhoods up North over a century ago.....
There is an old saying up North, Blacks follow the Jews...while distasteful it was used quite often up North as that was what was considered the neighborhood breaker. The same concerns you have about "gentrification" are precisely the same fears they had about "****'s moving in"....
In short, Communism, Socialism, Classissim, you been smoken crackissim is thinking too much. People don't like others moving into their neighborhoods, period. Race has little to do with it except for the fact when you are the different race moving in?
This fear works both ways my friend. I don't see Blacks opening up the welcome wagon for the Tina Fey wannabes when they move into Grant Park, Cabbage town et al....it's usually condemned by those that have the majority in those neighborhoods today....
As for selling houses at inflated prices??? Now THAT is funny....I thought most of you complained that in those times, a person of color couldn't get a job let alone make a lot of money so tell me, where did these poor people get the money to move into these overinflated priced homes???
The homes go down in value historically whenever the color changes from White to something off-white. Let me repeat that before you pull your ghat and have a canniption fit. It's a FACT, not fiction. It's not saying one is racist when they point out this FACT...it's the same as saying the sky is blue.....historically speaking, whenever Blacks moved into an all White neighborhood, over time, the housing values diminished.....and as for your thoughts on true diversity, well, you seem to have a slant in your comments as you seem to equate diversity as equal in all aspects.
I guess you need to seek Bill Clinton's advice on what diversity is....is......and the difference between....for the record, most layman consider diversity as diversity of ethnicity, not economic....I'll leave it to those that while away their days at the universities to debate that point but, you won't get far telling the other 80% I"m wrong on this point....
Couple that with kids and their underwear hangin' out, ball caps sideways, yards of cloth that make up one pair of jeans and a vocabulary that those in Sudan might recognize and yeah, the neighborhood's value might start to slide a little....
Your reference to Stone Mountain. I have an answer. Stone Mountain was worth more before the recession of 1990-91 when Blacks started moving there.....now? Well, you tell me what the area is worth now??? Can't blame that on White Flight, Gentrification, ipso-facto, gluteus maximus, e-plurbus unum.....etc.....you have to keep the place UP and crime DOWN to keep values CLIMBING......k?
I think the drive-by's on Memorial/DUI drive had a lot to do with it to. That an perhaps the Loc-Dog image or as you say, hood image and murder, violent assault rates sky-rocketed might have had a bit to do with it as well....call me crazy but, when I look for a house and a little excitement in the neighborhood, uzi's, sideways nines and a kid that thinks he has a rason to act like an a-hole is not exactly high on my list of "must haves" for the neighborhood??? I believe in the motto, arrive alive.....might just be me but, it's the way I feel....
Call me whacky but, when a kid dons a hoody, Malcolm-X hat, and shades in July during a heat-wave chances are he is not exactly the choir-boy type and it might be good for me to subtly check my holster and un-snap it "just in case" things don't go so well during the interchange???
Ya think it's an accident that White Flight ever occurred in the first place? Stats don't lie. People do vote with their wallets, even whites...they have rights and opinions too you know....
As far as the escape, Blacks escaped for the same damn reasons....opportunity and the fact that a 400K house is nicer than one that costs 60K.....after all, in the nice neighborhood you tend to wake up with your car still in the drive-way unmolested along with your spouse, significant other and kids as well....just a thought....just throwing that out there.....we in the burbs like to call it a new phenomena; "Common Sense"....give it a whirl, you might see I'm right...after all, I"m sure you are open minded enough, studious enough, and care enough to investigate both sides of the story....
As far as moving in town, I think the kids like it because it's trendy and hope to make a return on their homes....kind of what 80 percent of America does when they buy a house...blacks too my friend....they would actually like to see it appreciate??? What a crime....oh, the humanity!
You might also note that the most famous and richest of Blacks tend to do very little with their communities when they leave them. Bill Cosby has been a lightning rod of common sense in the African American community and yet condemned wholesale for stating the obvious....be where you ain't....
I would applaud your comment on classicism in the Black Community. Funniest thing I have ever seen. I thought only Whites did that. Now, apparently, if you are black and don't have an SUV whoa...what will the neighbors say???? If I understand the current pecking order, Jeep Cherokees are the low end, Explorers and Expeditions middle with the crowining jewel being a White or Black Naaaaavigatttuh??
How am I doing? Close? Just curious.....talk about worshipping false profits.....bling bling this!
As far as that Government sponsored CIA, Gay Pervert Hoover inititative to drug the black man...shadddduppppp. you are boring me already!!! You give the government too much credit....remember, they couldn't get Viet Nam right....you thought they actually pushed drugs into a community so they could spend more on subsidies to bail them out??? If they had been that sharp they would have stopped at the ponit of giving the drugs....
People are people. Black or White and all colors in between. We tend to vote with our wallets, try to do the best for and by our friends and families and try to leave the house with a little profit later on down the road....nothing more, nothing less....we leave Pervert Hoover out of it and simply work hard, save, and try to leave a little more for our lineal decendants than when we first started out....
The drug wars in your culture are something YOUR culture created. Period. For once take responsibility for what you have done to your OWN people. And by the way, this is NOT new either.....ever heard of Al Capone? Bugsy Siegel, Myer Lansky? A couple of Italian and Jew New Yorkers who knew something about vice too my friend. And unlike your story, I don't blame the governemnt, I blame Capone and others who committed the crimes.
And for the record, if you or I had only this as an option over flipping burgers you can bet, you and I would probably be flipping little baggies and viles for a living too....we were just blessed and lucky...nothing more...and had I done something like that and got caught, I would have been as bad as those listed above...nothing more....nothing glorious or cool about it....period....just stupidity with a few extra bucks to show for it....and yes, the government had nothing to do with it....that's as ignorant as saying all those people who signed on to bad mortgages should blame the banks....don't be ridiculous....man up...take responsibility...I have yet to see one mortgage broker running down the street chasing your or I at gunpoint to sign a mortgage with 5pts rolled in along with a few other goodies to put you upside down day one....they signed, they should have paid for it.....
Tookie, and all the dead and imprisoned gang founders I see glorified on cable shows were simply criminal thugs who got caught and in some cases died. Much like the mob, good riddance. Don't glorify them, don't honor them because they threw a chicken or turkey out to the ones they victimized....they weren't nice guys....they were vultures who preyed on the weak and poor. Cheap shot artists....nothing more. Right up there with stealing SS checks from Grandma.
As it relates to neighborhoods and their changes and migrations, remember this, water seeks it's own level. It is based almost entirely on economics....as they neighborhood's wealth fluctuates, so does the populace.....period.....
Your activist overtones blemish what could be an interesting debate and civil discussion on the trends and changes in population densities throughout Atlanta over the last 50 years........nothing more.....while interesting and lively, it will not change the outcome or the future for that matter....it's just not on people's minds when shopping for a 3/2/2 fixer-upper on the weekends.
Get some rest....tomorrow's the first day of the rest of your life....
Ease up Malcolm, you are thinking way, way too much on this. White flight started out of fear and the historical pattern of lower-class people moving into their neighborhood.
Correction: Not lower class people, but black people (even affluent ones).
There is an old saying up North, Blacks follow the Jews...while distasteful it was used quite often up North as that was what was considered the neighborhood breaker. The same concerns you have about "gentrification" are precisely the same fears they had about "****'s moving in"....
Sorry, I'm not sure what concerns you are referring to. I think the first post was asking several things... [Well taken care-of black communities appreciating slower than comparable whites'... Can gentrification happen in a racially diverse areas (even if incomes are comparable), etc.]
In short, Communism, Socialism, Classissim, you been smoken crackissim is thinking too much.
People don't like others moving into their neighborhoods, period. Race has little to do with it except for the fact when you are the different race moving in?
I live in a predominately black area and I don't think people care about the race of the people moving in. In fact, I think they would welcome some diversity... many have even said so.
This fear works both ways my friend. I don't see Blacks opening up the welcome wagon for the Tina Fey wannabes when they move into Grant Park, Cabbage town et al.... it's usually condemned by those that have the majority in those neighborhoods today....
I tend to disagree. The poorer GP residents weren't mad about whites moving in, they were mad about being forced out. Again, many black GP residents welcomed gentrification (as long as they were able to keep their homes). Black and poor is not synonymous.
As for selling houses at inflated prices??? Now THAT is funny....I thought most of you complained that in those times, a person of color couldn't get a job let alone make a lot of money so tell me, where did these poor people get the money to move into these overinflated priced homes???
Affluent black families, started the first waves of integration. Not the poor ones. Poor black families stayed in the originally black neighborhoods as they declined partially because of the mass exodus of the black upper and middle classes. Also, believe it or not, during Jim Crow, even poor black families paid more money for a lower quality of life than whites. It was called the "colored tax". This is what made it more difficult for them to get ahead.
The homes go down in value historically whenever the color changes from White to something off-white.
Even Asian?
Let me repeat that before you pull your ghat and have a canniption fit.
It's a FACT, not fiction. It's not saying one is racist when they point out this FACT...it's the same as saying the sky is blue.....historically speaking, whenever Blacks moved into an all White neighborhood, over time, the housing values diminished.....
I agree... but that is not always because blacks do not take care of their stuff. The fact that blacks move in in of itself is why... then they chase whites to the next area, the poor move in, who don't take of the community, then values really plummet...
and as for your thoughts on true diversity, well, you seem to have a slant in your comments as you seem to equate diversity as equal in all aspects.
I don't understand. Please explain...
I guess you need to seek Bill Clinton's advice on what diversity is....is......and the difference between....for the record, most layman consider diversity as diversity of ethnicity, not economic....I'll leave it to those that while away their days at the universities to debate that point but, you won't get far telling the other 80% I"m wrong on this point....
Okay, but I'm asking about racial and economic diversity. Call it whatever you like.
Couple that with kids and their underwear hangin' out, ball caps sideways, yards of cloth that make up one pair of jeans and a vocabulary that those in Sudan might recognize and yeah, the neighborhood's value might start to slide a little....
In some black communities, this is not the case, yet property values are still disproportionately lower. Or are you saying that every black community has kids with their underwear hangin' out, ball caps sideways, yards of cloth that make up one pair of jeans and a vocabulary that those in Sudan might recognize?
Your reference to Stone Mountain. I have an answer. Stone Mountain was worth more before the recession of 1990-91 when Blacks started moving there.....now? Well, you tell me what the area is worth now??? Can't blame that on White Flight, Gentrification, ipso-facto, gluteus maximus, e-plurbus unum.....etc.....you have to keep the place UP and crime DOWN to keep values CLIMBING......k?
Why did the whites leave? Are saying that first wave of blacks wreaked havoc on the neighborhood? Hidden Hills, for example, was a respectable community until the mid to late 90's. Why couldn't the blacks and whites all live together maintaining a high community standard?
I think the drive-by's on Memorial/DUI drive had a lot to do with it to.
That an perhaps the Loc-Dog image or as you say, hood image and murder, violent assault rates sky-rocketed might have had a bit to do with it as well....call me crazy but, when I look for a house and a little excitement in the neighborhood, uzi's, sideways nines and a kid that thinks he has a rason to act like an a-hole is not exactly high on my list of "must haves" for the neighborhood??? I believe in the motto, arrive alive.....might just be me but, it's the way I feel....
That happened when poor, low brow residents came, not the first wave of black residents. Poor residents came because more white residents left. Thus starting a value depressing cycle. I think you are confusing the cause and effect a little. These are poor issues, not singularly black issues. While many blacks are poor, they are not synonymous. This is where I think your confusion lies. Blacks came first, poor followed. But it didn't have to be that way.
Call me whacky but, when a kid dons a hoody, Malcolm-X hat, and shades in July during a heat-wave chances are he is not exactly the choir-boy type and it might be good for me to subtly check my holster and un-snap it "just in case" things don't go so well during the interchange???
Ya think it's an accident that White Flight ever occurred in the first place? Stats don't lie. People do vote with their wallets, even whites...they have rights and opinions too you know....
White Flight occurred because of the PERCEPTION that blacks would ravage their neighborhoods, spread disease, rape their daughters, etc. NOT THE REALITY. All black people are not criminals. And this is NOT the element that started integration, although many whites at the time felt that it was simply because the people were black.
As far as the escape, Blacks escaped for the same damn reasons....opportunity and the fact that a 400K house is nicer than one that costs 60K.....after all, in the nice neighborhood you tend to wake up with your car still in the drive-way unmolested along with your spouse, significant other and kids as well....just a thought....just throwing that out there.....we in the burbs like to call it a new phenomena; "Common Sense"....give it a whirl, you might see I'm right...after all, I"m sure you are open minded enough, studious enough, and care enough to investigate both sides of the story....
I agree with all this... (aside from the condescending attitude). What's your point? For the record, a house in a crime-free all-black community with decent schools is still worth a whole lot less than an identical house in a comparable school district with a predominantly white (or non-black) population. Why? Is it perception?
As far as moving in town, I think the kids like it because it's trendy and hope to make a return on their homes....kind of what 80 percent of America does when they buy a house...blacks too my friend....they would actually like to see it appreciate??? What a crime....oh, the humanity!
I agree, Mr. Sarcasm. So why don't more affluent blacks move intown?
You might also note that the most famous and richest of Blacks tend to do very little with their communities when they leave them. Bill Cosby has been a lightning rod of common sense in the African American community and yet condemned wholesale for stating the obvious....be where you ain't....
So why shouldn't they move into once all-black gentrifying in-town communities like their white counterparts?
I would applaud your comment on classicism in the Black Community. Funniest thing I have ever seen. I thought only Whites did that. Now, apparently, if you are black and don't have an SUV whoa...what will the neighbors say???? If I understand the current pecking order, Jeep Cherokees are the low end, Explorers and Expeditions middle with the crowning jewel being a White or Black Naaaaavigatttuh??
How am I doing? Close? Just curious.....talk about worshipping false profits.....bling bling this!
What does this have to do with what we are talking about?
As far as that Government sponsored CIA, Gay Pervert Hoover inititative to drug the black man...shadddduppppp. you are boring me already!!! You give the government too much credit....remember, they couldn't get Viet Nam right....you thought they actually pushed drugs into a community so they could spend more on subsidies to bail them out??? If they had been that sharp they would have stopped at the ponit of giving the drugs....
People are people. Black or White and all colors in between. We tend to vote with our wallets, try to do the best for and by our friends and families and try to leave the house with a little profit later on down the road....nothing more, nothing less....we leave Pervert Hoover out of it and simply work hard, save, and try to leave a little more for our lineal decendants than when we first started out....
I agree. But I thinking you are misreading/missing the points of the OP. All the questions are in bold.
The drug wars in your culture are something YOUR culture created. Period. For once take responsibility for what you have done to your OWN people. And by the way, this is NOT new either.....ever heard of Al Capone? Bugsy Siegel, Myer Lansky? A couple of Italian and Jew New Yorkers who knew something about vice too my friend. And unlike your story, I don't blame the governemnt, I blame Capone and others who committed the crimes.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jQ9fgi7IZSk
As it relates to neighborhoods and their changes and migrations, remember this, water seeks it's own level. It is based almost entirely on economics....as they neighborhood's wealth fluctuates, so does the populace.....period.....
Why did the communities first fluctuate? Does race (not class) play a role now regarding housing values today?
Your activist overtones blemish what could be an interesting debate and civil discussion on the trends and changes in population densities throughout Atlanta over the last 50 years........nothing more.....while interesting and lively, it will not change the outcome or the future for that matter....it's just not on people's minds when shopping for a 3/2/2 fixer-upper on the weekends.
Regardless of the "activist overtones" I think you grossly failed to see the points. But I'm pretty sure my tone in the OP doesn't justify your insulting tone in this post.
Get some rest....tomorrow's the first day of the rest of your life....
True indeed, my friend. I know you don't care and all, but I hope to have shed some light on the purpose of the OP. I'd hope you don't be a cop out and add some intelligent responses instead of posting a misinformed rant based on what you think you can stereotypically glean about me from one C-D post inquiring about gentrification, class, and race, in Atlanta.
My comments are in red. Was the tone of the OP really "young" and "angry"? I wonder why. I thought it was more of an inquisitive or ponderous tone... oh well, you can't please everybody...
PS: Here are those links again in case you don't care enough to cut and paste them in your address bar.
My theory is more so an economic one. I'd compare "white flight" to the upheaval of airline deregulation. With desegregation, lower-middle class whites had to compete with lower-middle class blacks, much like legacy carriers had to compete with lean, aggressive low-cost carriers. The exclusivity of these white communities was an unsustainable bubble. Lower-middle class whites had been able to experience a higher quality of life (in terms of safety, amenities, etc.) due to the system of segregation that would have otherwise been out of their price range if they faced free market competition from similar-class blacks.
The in-town neighborhoods that experienced a color shift weren't rich communities with streets paved with gold that then turned into hoods overnight. It was a color shift, not a wealth shift. Blacks were able to meet the selling point of whites, plain and simple, and despite all of the pressures to "keep communities white" by some local neighborhood groups, money talks (blacks may have even paid more than competing offers from whites to jump this discrimination hurdle).
In the aftermath, yes, some communities suffered just like many legacy airlines went into chapter 11 bankruptcy protection. Before, you had a community of established white residents living in a bubble. Suddenly, you have an influx of new residents. White neighbors didn't know their black neighbors (and they may not have been on speaking terms). Neighborhood watch and other forms of community collaboration falls apart; political favoritism from white community officials fades away and city services deteriorated. Those communities that weren't able to reestablish their "we're in this together" spirit turned ghetto. Those communities that recognized that good neighborliness is an asset rode out the storm, evolved, and came through fine, albeit re-balanced for economic reality in a free market.
Other communities faced forces beyond their control. College Park was on the approach path of the world's busiest airport. The noise pollution devalued the nice, established middle-class / upper-middle-class suburb... which gradually became cheap housing for low-income airport concessions workers.
My theory is more so an economic one. I'd compare "white flight" to the upheaval of airline deregulation. With desegregation, lower-middle class whites had to compete with lower-middle class blacks, much like legacy carriers had to compete with lean, aggressive low-cost carriers. The exclusivity of these white communities was an unsustainable bubble. Lower-middle class whites had been able to experience a higher quality of life (in terms of safety, amenities, etc.) due to the system of segregation that would have otherwise been out of their price range if they faced free market competition from similar-class blacks.
The in-town neighborhoods that experienced a color shift weren't rich communities with streets paved with gold that then turned into hoods overnight. It was a color shift, not a wealth shift. Blacks were able to meet the selling point of whites, plain and simple, and despite all of the pressures to "keep communities white" by some local neighborhood groups, money talks (blacks may have even paid more than competing offers from whites to jump this discrimination hurdle).
In the aftermath, yes, some communities suffered just like many legacy airlines went into chapter 11 bankruptcy protection. Before, you had a community of established white residents living in a bubble. Suddenly, you have an influx of new residents. White neighbors didn't know their black neighbors (and they may not have been on speaking terms). Neighborhood watch and other forms of community collaboration falls apart; political favoritism from white community officials fades away and city services deteriorated. Those communities that weren't able to reestablish their "we're in this together" spirit turned ghetto. Those communities that recognized that good neighborliness is an asset rode out the storm, evolved, and came through fine, albeit re-balanced for economic reality in a free market.
Other communities faced forces beyond their control. College Park was on the approach path of the world's busiest airport. The noise pollution devalued the nice, established middle-class / upper-middle-class suburb... which gradually became cheap housing for low-income airport concessions workers.
Good Points... well assessed. Props.
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I don't know. 
While shacks on Hosea Williams (in Grandma's old 'hood... where your mom worked to get you out of) would sell for $200k+. Bitter irony indeed.
