Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
People can flit hither and yon - church hopping until they find a pastor that preaches what his congregation wants to hear rather than what God wants to tell them - until the cows come home. God does not change, and neither does his word. We are to conform ourselves, and line up our lives with what the bible says, not the other way around. Do I hit the mark, every time? No, I don't. Not anywhere close. But, the point is that I know, and acknowledge, what the ideal goal is and keep trying to meet it, instead of trying to bend it to meet me. Why? Because, as believers, we are not to add to or take away from God's word. Yet, that is what people try to do over and over again, and that's part of the reason why debacles like this Bishop Long thing happen.
OK - so if the bible was translated correctly and meant to be taken literally about homosexuality, shouldn't you, prechers, bishops etc also have an equal focus on it's other rules?
For instance:
Death to foul mouthed kids -
"For everyone who curses his father or his mother shall surely be put to death. He has cursed his father or his mother. His blood shall be upon him." Leviticus20:9
Shunning for men and women who...well..uhh...are naked together during her time of the month -
"If a man lies with a woman during her sickness and uncovers her nakedness, he has discovered her flow, and she has uncovered the flow of her blood. Both of them shall be cut off from her people." (Leviticus20:18
Why preach pro-slavery ideas - it's in the bible
"Your male and female slaves are to come from the nations around you; from them you may buy slaves. You may also buy some of the temporary residents living among you and members of their clans born in your country, and they will become your property." (Leviticus25:44-45)
Eddie and lots of others ignored this one on hair grooming too -
"Do not cut the hair at the sides of your head or clip off the edges of your beard." (Leviticus )
Why no preaching about the sin of eating pork -
"...and the swine, though it divides the hoof, having cloven hooves, yet does not chew the cud, is unclean to you." (Leviticus 11:7)
no cotton/poly blends - that would make a great sermon -
"...do not plant your field with two kinds of seed. Do not wear material woven of two kinds of material." (Leviticus )
AND lastly, no shellfish - it's a sin -
"But all in the seas or in the rivers that do not have fins and scales, all that move in the water or any living thing which is in the water, they are an abomination to you." (Leviticus 11:10)[
"They (shellfish) shall be an abomination to you; you shall not eat their flesh, but you shall regard their carcasses as an abomination." (Leviticus 11:11)
"Whatever in the water does not have fins or scales; that shall be an abomination to you." (Leviticus 11:12)
......crickets....
Is there some sort of play book that gays and their supporters break out anytime someone uses the Bible to denounce homosexuality? Seriously, anytime someone says anything about homosexuality being a sin the shellfish arguement comes out. It's as predictable as the sun rising tomorrow.
Is there some sort of play book that gays and their supporters break out anytime someone uses the Bible to denounce homosexuality? Seriously, anytime someone says anything about homosexuality being a sin the shellfish arguement comes out. It's as predictable as the sun rising tomorrow.
Why would there need to be a play book? This response is predictable because it's obvious and unanswerable.
Furthermore, what did Our Lord himself have to say about homosexuality, as recorded in Holy Scripture? Nothing. That's right, Jesus never mentioned it. However, he had a heck of a lot to say about money, and what he had to say wasn't too favorable to rich people. By world standards, that would likely include everyone reading these words. So, what should we Christians do? It's pretty clear what the words of Jesus direct: Quit worrying about sexual orientation (particularly, the sexual orientation of others) and worry more about whether your relationship to wealth is truly Christian.
Why would there need to be a play book? This response is predictable because it's obvious and unanswerable.
Furthermore, what did Our Lord himself have to say about homosexuality, as recorded in Holy Scripture? Nothing. That's right, Jesus never mentioned it. However, he had a heck of a lot to say about money, and what he had to say wasn't too favorable to rich people. By world standards, that would likely include everyone reading these words. So, what should we Christians do? It's pretty clear what the words of Jesus direct: Quit worrying about sexual orientation (particularly, the sexual orientation of others) and worry more about whether your relationship to wealth is truly Christian.
One must take the whole of scriptural teaching on any subject if one is going to make a proclamation on WWJD. Jesus did honor the foundation established in the Old Testament covenant, even claiming that he was its "fulfillment." Said covenant did decree homosexual activity as sinful.
Was Jesus a raging fundamentalist who condemned those whose lives did not line up to this sexual standard? No. He came with love to the woman caught in adultery, did not condemn her, but told her to "go and sin no more." In this he spoke to anyone participating in sins of a sexual nature that there is both love and acceptance while at the same time still a standard to live a life that is sexually pure and an ability to do so.
One can make the point that Jesus was not a "homophobe" in modern speak in that he did not single out homosexual acts or relations or orientation the way some of his followers in these days do, but he made it very clear that sexual practice is only pure and holy within a marriage between one male and one female. While that might not play well in this politically correct day and age, you malign scriptures if you say Jesus had any other viewpoint of what was pure and holy in regards to human sexuality.
One must remember that homosexuality as it is spoke of as an "orientation" is a mindset that has only been around since the 19th century. The bible does not speak with such a mindset as we have today. Homosexuality, in biblical terms, is totally related to sexual acts between two members of the same sex, not an orientation or lifestyle.
Eunuchs are mentioned biblically, the closest thing I've seen to anything that could back up that there is a lifestyle or orientation of a person outside of heterosexuality, so there might be some room for those that are "asexual" but homosexuality as an act is condemned throughout scripture and Jesus said not one thing to reverse that. And without the act, what good is claiming the orientation?
Of course I speak only to those who espouse a Christian world view or desire to line their personal lives up to a biblical standard. I know others will disagree, but the above, in a nutshell, is my take on Jesus's view of homosexuality.
Location: The Greatest city on Earth: City of Atlanta Proper
8,485 posts, read 14,987,215 times
Reputation: 7328
Quote:
Originally Posted by rajuncajun
I want to climb back to 10,000 feet and focus on a bigger issue (in my mind). What is with this "Black Church" label? When I read the Bible I don't see a different Church for different ethnic groups. We might pass the label off as a subtlety, but something is not right with that label. So every other ethnicity of Church is just called "the Church", but when a Church is predominately black it's called the "Black Church"? I don't know if I'm buying it because in the Bible only "the Church" goes to Heaven. Folks probably trying to slip some sub-conscience undertones on you black folks that you are not picking up on (probably something to do with that black liberation theology {that only interests black folks} that's not Biblical).
No, it pretty much has to do with the fact that most of the people that attend that church are black. Were you unaware that most Christian churches in this country are divided by race? Next time you are in a church, look around...
Edit:
Just for clarity, I more specifically mean that churches are usually dominated by one "color". Sure, you might see a couple of white (or latino or asian) people at a majority black church and vice versa, but by and large Christian churches are still segregated and there have only been a few I've seen that aren't.
As for other faiths, Jewish temples obviously are usually not very integrated, but Muslim Mosques are usually extremely diverse by nationality and ethnicity. Funny how they always get labeled as being hostile to other types of people.
I suspect the word "disinterest" applies to me best on this issue. I am not christian and seldomly do the scandals affect me in any way, certainly "Surprise" is not a reaction I am likely to have. Sadly, this is what I suspect from christian churches in general, kinda like the catholic and its' ongoing "little boy" thing.
Is there some sort of play book that gays and their supporters break out anytime someone uses the Bible to denounce homosexuality? Seriously, anytime someone says anything about homosexuality being a sin the shellfish arguement comes out. It's as predictable as the sun rising tomorrow.
I'm more puzzled by folks who insist that a literal reading of the Bible gives them a playbook to condemn anything, be it shellfish or gays. There's an awful lot of picking and choosing going on there. If they claim the whole thing is the literal and absolute truth and that they can pick out one sentence to justify their point of view, then it seems pretty ridiculous to deny the rest of it.
For instance, the Bible says:
Colossians 3:22 Slaves, obey your earthly masters in everything; and do it, not only when their eye is on you and to win their favor, but with sincerity of heart and reverence for the Lord.
1 Timothy 6:1 All who are under the yoke of slavery should consider their masters worthy of full respect, so that God's name and our teaching may not be slandered.
Titus 2:9 Teach slaves to be subject to their masters in everything, to try to please them, not to talk back to them.
1 Peter 2:18 Slaves, submit yourselves to your masters with all respect, not only to those who are good and considerate, but also to those who are harsh.
Yet you don't often hear folks going around insisting that the Bible says slaves need to be more obedient, hold their masters in high respect, and not talk back.
Nor do you hear many parents calling for the stoning of their children as taught in Deuteronomy. Why is this less popular than using the Bible to condemn gays?
Deuteronomy 21:18 If a man has a stubborn and rebellious son who does not obey his father and mother and will not listen to them when they discipline him, his father and mother shall take hold of him and bring him to the elders at the gate of his town. They shall say to the elders, "This son of ours is stubborn and rebellious. He will not obey us. He is a profligate and a drunkard." Then all the men of his town shall stone him to death.
Then you’ve got that situation in Deuteronomy 22:25. If you come across a virgin out in the country and rape her and she’s already engaged, you die. But if she’s not engaged (and you get caught), you only have to pay her dad 50 shekels. Yet I can’t ever recall anybody insisting on this rule.
Deuteronomy 22:25: But if out in the country a man happens to meet a girl pledged to be married and rapes her, only the man who has done this shall die. Do nothing to the girl; she has committed no sin deserving death. This case is like that of someone who attacks and murders his neighbor, for the man found the girl out in the country, and though the betrothed girl screamed, there was no one to rescue her.If a man happens to meet a virgin who is not pledged to be married and rapes her and they are discovered, he shall pay the girl's father fifty shekels of silver.
So how is it that religious “rule enforcers” get to pick just the parts of the Bible they want to use but blow off the rest?
When they do that, it’s pretty hard to put much stock in their condemnations. That’s no more than a personal pick-and-choosathon.
I'm more puzzled by folks who insist that a literal reading of the Bible gives them a playbook to condemn anything, be it shellfish or gays. There's an awful lot of picking and choosing going on there. If they claim the whole thing is the literal and absolute truth and that they can pick out one sentence to justify their point of view, then it seems pretty ridiculous to deny the rest of it.
For instance, the Bible says:
Colossians 3:22 Slaves, obey your earthly masters in everything; and do it, not only when their eye is on you and to win their favor, but with sincerity of heart and reverence for the Lord.
1 Timothy 6:1 All who are under the yoke of slavery should consider their masters worthy of full respect, so that God's name and our teaching may not be slandered.
Titus 2:9 Teach slaves to be subject to their masters in everything, to try to please them, not to talk back to them.
1 Peter 2:18 Slaves, submit yourselves to your masters with all respect, not only to those who are good and considerate, but also to those who are harsh.
Yet you don't often hear folks going around insisting that the Bible says slaves need to be more obedient, hold their masters in high respect, and not talk back.
Nor do you hear many parents calling for the stoning of their children as taught in Deuteronomy. Why is this less popular than using the Bible to condemn gays?
Deuteronomy 21:18 If a man has a stubborn and rebellious son who does not obey his father and mother and will not listen to them when they discipline him, his father and mother shall take hold of him and bring him to the elders at the gate of his town. They shall say to the elders, "This son of ours is stubborn and rebellious. He will not obey us. He is a profligate and a drunkard." Then all the men of his town shall stone him to death.
Then you’ve got that situation in Deuteronomy 22:25. If you come across a virgin out in the country and rape her and she’s already engaged, you die. But if she’s not engaged (and you get caught), you only have to pay her dad 50 shekels. Yet I can’t ever recall anybody insisting on this rule.
Deuteronomy 22:25: But if out in the country a man happens to meet a girl pledged to be married and rapes her, only the man who has done this shall die. Do nothing to the girl; she has committed no sin deserving death. This case is like that of someone who attacks and murders his neighbor, for the man found the girl out in the country, and though the betrothed girl screamed, there was no one to rescue her.If a man happens to meet a virgin who is not pledged to be married and rapes her and they are discovered, he shall pay the girl's father fifty shekels of silver.
So how is it that religious “rule enforcers” get to pick just the parts of the Bible they want to use but blow off the rest?
When they do that, it’s pretty hard to put much stock in their condemnations. That’s no more than a personal pick-and-choosathon.
I've never heard gays (or anybody else) go around condemning shellfish eaters. Sounds to me like they're just saying it's hypocritical for people who claim to be Christians to pull one sentence out of the Bible and ignore the rest.
If it's all true, then you can't pick and choose the part that suits your social agenda. You have to take the whole thing -- including the part about stoning your kid if he's disobedient. And paying 50 shekels for raping an un-engaged girl but getting the death penalty if she's engaged. And telling slaves to be obedient and put their hearts into it. And not eating shrimp. Or Lobster. Or fish. Etc., etc., etc.
I suspect the word "disinterest" applies to me best on this issue. I am not christian and seldomly do the scandals affect me in any way, certainly "Surprise" is not a reaction I am likely to have. Sadly, this is what I suspect from christian churches in general, kinda like the catholic and its' ongoing "little boy" thing.
Please dont paint a picture of the christian faith by a scandal or scandals. We are not about that. If you want to know about christianity consult the manual straight from our leader Jesus Christ.
His biography can be found in the 4 gospels written by Matthew Mark Luke and John. The book of acts is the book of conversions. That tells you about the start of the church. Then you have the epistles romans through jude those are the letter from the apostles to the church instructing us on how to live along with instruction on how we are to conduct the lords work. then you have revelation that confirms the return of the Christ.
If you want to develop an opinion on a group please base it off of fact not eddie long.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
