Streets in Downtown Atlanta (Buckhead: neighborhoods, buying, construction)

[DTL3000]

Originally Posted by testa50

Should have driven on Auburn Avenue instead. Enough money has been spent paving that road in special brick patterns and so forth that you could pave half a dozen roads in asphalt.

Unfortunately, we live in a city with no grasp of cost/benefit analysis and economy whatsoever. We can't repave a street or fix a sidewalk without it turning into a multimillion dollar urban redevelopment project (meanwhile the subgrade is failing on the other streets), just like we can't propose a public transit project without it turning into a multibillion dollar platform to implement a social agenda that covers everything from pocket parks to affordable housing.

The unsurprising result is mediocre services at an exhorbitant price.

I've never even thought of it that way but you're right. We can't simply pave the roads or fix the sidewalks we do have. We have to come up with some grandiose plan that requires years of "studies" and piles of money.

[greenc51]

Originally Posted by arjay57

Are they due to be repaved anytime soon? We went to the art walk in Castleberry Hill last night and noticed that many of the streets for several blocks around Five Points are in atrocious condition. Numerous steel plates, potholes, dozens of poorly done asphalt patches, unevenness, etc.

What's up with that?

A consequence of city living.
You've never seen a pothole until you've been to NYC and have seen one knee deep...

EDIT:
Also, I have had a Philly cop tell me that some streets are purposely kept in crappy condition as an easy way to control speeding.

[DTL3000]

http://www.sundaypaper.com/More/Archives/tabid/98/articleType/ArticleView/articleId/5776/Sidewalks-not-streetcars.aspx (broken link)

Stephanie Ramage wrote a pretty good article about this city's leadership tending to focus on big projects while ignoring basic upkeep and quality of life.

[testa50]

The pretty much sums it up, although I think a streetcar and sidewalks fall into a somewhat different category, and $10MM is only a tiny fraction of the city's annual budget. The Auburn Ave streetcar is actually remarkably cost-focused for this city. The Peachtree Streetcar, which is probably a better idea, is a complete mess on the other hand. Look at this video to see the sort of frieghteningly expensive bells and whistles that are planned to go along with it:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ygXEqWoedEQ
Apparently we are unable to build a streetcar without also building our own version of the Gateway Arch.

Sadly, the Beltline is afflicted with the same disease. Now they are even planning to have the tracks embedded in grass instead of ballast or concrete. I have knowledge of rail engineering and I am very skeptical of this fitting with any track system in a way that's versatile and easy to maintain. It's no wonder the project is now pushing an outlandish $150MM per route mile, before a shovel has even been lifted. Of note, this is in the same neighborhood as all singng all dancing MARTA expansions.

[mike7586]

Originally Posted by testa50

The pretty much sums it up, although I think a streetcar and sidewalks fall into a somewhat different category, and $10MM is only a tiny fraction of the city's annual budget. The Auburn Ave streetcar is actually remarkably cost-focused for this city. The Peachtree Streetcar, which is probably a better idea, is a complete mess on the other hand. Look at this video to see the sort of frieghteningly expensive bells and whistles that are planned to go along with it:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ygXEqWoedEQ
Apparently we are unable to build a streetcar without also building our own version of the Gateway Arch.

Sadly, the Beltline is afflicted with the same disease. Now they are even planning to have the tracks embedded in grass instead of ballast or concrete. I have knowledge of rail engineering and I am very skeptical of this fitting with any track system in a way that's versatile and easy to maintain. It's no wonder the project is now pushing an outlandish $150MM per route mile, before a shovel has even been lifted. Of note, this is in the same neighborhood as all singng all dancing MARTA expansions.

I don't believe that arch and the park in the video are part of the project. I think it was put there to show what development could look like after the streetcar is built. Although I have to say, that park does look nice though.

I've never heard that about the Beltline, but if it's true, I think it's pretty stupid.

[arjay57]

Originally Posted by testa50

The pretty much sums it up, although I think a streetcar and sidewalks fall into a somewhat different category, and $10MM is only a tiny fraction of the city's annual budget.

$10 million would be a huge part of the city's public works budget. The city allocates about $23 million a year for public works, and $10 million of that goes to salaries.

Sadly, the Beltline is afflicted with the same disease. Now they are even planning to have the tracks embedded in grass instead of ballast or concrete. I have knowledge of rail engineering and I am very skeptical of this fitting with any track system in a way that's versatile and easy to maintain. It's no wonder the project is now pushing an outlandish $150MM per route mile, before a shovel has even been lifted.

I'm afraid the era of big infrastructure projects has come and gone. Can you imagine trying to build something like the MARTA rail system these days? Of Lake Lanier? There's no money or political will for things of that scale.

[AnsleyPark]

Read in the paper this morning about the gulch intermodal transit hub. Sounds like DOT is preparing to solicit requests for proposals in the near future.

[Zone6]

I think that's pretty far down on the budget priority list unfortunately....

[cwkimbro]

Ok... so many issues to address here...

Peachtree Streetcar... I'm not sure where $150 million per mile came from. The capitol cost estimates of the streetcar for Peachtree are estimated closer to $35 million a mile (2-way rail).
Then there are other capital expenses, like a maintenance facility for $15-$20 million and then the costs of the streetcars themselves. The first phase, which I believe is Five Points to Midtown and the Buckhead commercial district (not residential) is suppose to cost around $190 million total.

City funding in general. Remember some funds are inflexible to how they can be spent. A good portion of the non-federal funds for the streetcar are coming from CIDs that are spending money in hopes of raising property values. For the Peachtree Project they are also considering doing a small limited Tax assessment district to make the properties on the path that benefit from it pay for it.

The other thing to consider is long term fiscal strategies for the city. They need to boost property values to finance the city better. The streetcars will help with that. The East-West streetcar already has some good developments planned that will boost property values (and by extension tax collections). Historically, the city took a hit in tax returns (inflation adjusted) when many people left the city for the suburbs. That is one reason why the water and sewage infrastructure is in such disrepair.

As for the Street/Sidewalk infrastructure here is a 2008 state of infrastructure report (http://www.atlantaga.gov/client_resources/mayorsoffice/coa%20infrastructure.pdf (broken link)). It is worth looking at. They are pretty blunt in saying that they are back-logged for repaving.

Also you can look at Atlanta's set benchmark measurements, ATLstats (http://www.atlantaga.gov/client_resources/mayorsoffice/stimulus/atlstat%20annual%20report%20-%20fy2009.pdf (broken link)) for 2009.

Page 2 shows that road resurfacing started slowing down starting in 2007. They had to issue bonds to do the work and I am guessing with the recession were afraid to issue more bonds to keep going. There is also a chart that shows the number of potholes has more than doubled since 2007 due to decreased repaving.

Page 9 has a brief discussion about road plate removals from the Watershed department (this would be related to fixing the water and sewer pipes). They claim things have gotten better since 2008. It doesn't mention how there are on active projects.

[arjay57]

Originally Posted by cwkimbro

.
They had to issue bonds to do the work and I am guessing with the recession were afraid to issue more bonds to keep going.

The city's bonding capacity has been pretty well tapped out.