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The ARC is a legitimate governmental structure, right? It's Atlanta's 20 county MPO. Do jurisdictions and counties even have the ability to leave the MPO? I see Fayette County cars every day in Midtown, Downtown, Buckhead, wherever. The residents there clearly use Atlanta's services, probably use MARTA when convenient and when they are in the city, and choke up S Atlanta highways (who from Fayette county carpools/vans to work in Midtown?). If they are going to use Atlanta's city services then they should be forced to be part of the MPO.
Now I am a conservative Republican guy, but I believe a more streamlined regional government would actually reduce governmental costs. I am also pretty liberal when it comes to sustainability and land use/urban design, so I may differ here. I am glad MARTA now has its own seat at the ARC table (wow that took a while), but I think instead of more areas breaking off and becoming their own municipality, more areas should consolidate. What was the purpose of Johns Creek again? Now we have 3 squabbling munis out there, streets that change names even though they are the same street, and people who feel divided by municipality.
It doesn't help that liberals in power soak up the rich and middle class to prop up the poor (it only feeds fuel to the fire to separate), but if our government were better, wiser, and more responsible/had better vision I think people would be more willing to consolidate and work on regional issues like transit.
Anyone who lives in a suburban community should take what their leaders say about the ARC and transit in general with a huge grain of salt and go to the ARC's website themself to find out about Plan 2040 (and give their input...please do so, there are numerous surveys to take that will shape the plan and help to educate you in the process about the basics of planning and why some things are certain ways). Too often the Republican leadership in this state does not offer a competitive solution and argues the same old tired lines (whining about liberal Atlanta and how we need to be fiscally conservative, bla bla bla). We all agree and we all realize the problems. Now put up some solutions and give specifics on how to be fiscally conservative (like how might better public transit end up boosting property tax collections enough to maybe fully subsidize the system in theory? And what are the real costs to the taxpayer of sprawl and sitting in traffic?)
And people, on average roads are subsidized 40% by the taxpayer indirectly (various rail systems range from 50% to 80%). In other words, user fees cover 20-50% of your average transit system and "user" fees cover on average 60% of road costs. User fees for roads range from SPLOST taxes to CID taxes to GA state gas tax to fed gas tax, etc. The rest of the money still comes from the taxpayer. Roads are expensive and require extensive upkeep just like any other form of transportation. New roads designed to service low density residential and PUDs also result in a thinning of resources, resulting in higher rates of subsidization. Roads already in place serving higher density locales basically pay for themselves.
By the way, by most estimates in order to service future growth and maintain our existing infrastructure we will need $169 BILLION just in transportation costs alone in Atlanta's MPO region over the next 30 years. We have located funding and possible funding of only around $40 BILLION over this time frame. That's a huge shortfall. Transportation, from roads to rail to multi modal centers to public transit, is one of the areas I think government should be involved in and we should be taxed for.
Shame on the leaders of PTC for even thinking otherwise since they are a huge contribution to the burden on our transportation network. Republicans want to be so fiscally tight everywhere (which we know is actually not true) that they fail to realize that some areas are actually important and require money. Transportation is one of these few areas.
PTC may think it has the lid on everything down there, but it won't survive if Atlanta can't thrive. Atlanta is losing its competitive edge to smaller cities and Northeastern Cities. Traffic is one of the biggest reasons and higher business taxation. One requires cutting taxes, the other requires raising taxes. Solving both will benefit us all, and we'll all need to work together to get it done.
If you think it's bad here, go over to Alabama where Jefferson County (pop. 665,000, an increase of < 3,000 since 2000) is about to get it's 36th (!!!!!) incorporated municipality, McCalla. Jefferson also has 13 separate school districts!! Of course, I don't need to point out this is Birmingham I'm talking about, which has a myriad of problems Atlantans couldn't even begin to fathom. Our biggest issue is reconciling rampant growth and transportation needs. Their's is trying to figure out how to become desirable nationally -- and grow at all -- while smack dab in a region where such things are otherwise a given.
I can understand how Fayette Countians feel, however. Many of them have little direct connection with the city of Atlanta, and they're probably scratching their heads over why it's smart to spend mega millions in public transportation dollars on a two mile streetcar from the King Center to Centennial Olympic Park.
I like streetcars myself but it obviously isn't making much difference in the lives of folks in Fayette County.
Carving up the transportation money (if we do commit to a funding structure) is going to be a very tricky process.
Location: The Greatest city on Earth: City of Atlanta Proper
8,485 posts, read 14,987,215 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arjay57
I can understand how Fayette Countians feel, however. Many of them have little direct connection with the city of Atlanta, and they're probably scratching their heads over why it's smart to spend mega millions in public transportation dollars on a two mile streetcar from the King Center to Centennial Olympic Park.
The won't be. The streetcar line for the King District to Centennial Park is being paid for by the City and the Federal government.
The won't be. The streetcar line for the King District to Centennial Park is being paid for by the City and the Federal government.
Well, Fayette people obviously don't have anything to say about the money the city of Atlanta is allocating for this project. But they're paying federal taxes and competing for federal transportation funding, and that's where most of the streetcar money is coming from.
Location: The Greatest city on Earth: City of Atlanta Proper
8,485 posts, read 14,987,215 times
Reputation: 7328
Quote:
Originally Posted by arjay57
Well, Fayette people obviously don't have anything to say about the money the city of Atlanta is allocating for this project. But they're paying federal taxes and competing for federal transportation funding, and that's where most of the streetcar money is coming from.
Well that's stretching a bit. If people do have a problem with it, then they out to think of how they got their roads or running water. All of those types of things are paid for by using either State or Federal taxes. I can not understand why they would be ok with the concept for things like that, but would have trouble agreeing to a regional sales tax for transit projects. The money won't strictly go to the City of Atlanta and the inner burbs. They would get part of that too. A shared responsibility for paying such things is what makes America work.
Well that's stretching a bit. If people do have a problem with it, then they out to think of how they got their roads or running water. All of those types of things are paid for by using either State or Federal taxes. I can not understand why they would be ok with the concept for things like that, but would have trouble agreeing to a regional sales tax for transit projects. The money won't strictly go to the City of Atlanta and the inner burbs. They would get part of that too. A shared responsibility for paying such things is what makes America work.
I'm not sure what you're saying is a stretch. Obviously many governmental functions benefit the larger community, but that doesn't mean taxpayers have to accept and support every government expenditure. And it certianly doesn't mean every government expenditure is wise, cost effective, or efficiently implemented.
I can think of scads of projects that are complete boondoggles, ranging from the corrupt and wasteful to the merely ill-advised or moronic. Why shouldn't I have the right to express my views on that?
Telling me that running water is a shared responsibility hardly means I've given up the right to address or object to policies that seem dumb or ineffective.
Them thar is politics in a representative democracy.
One of the only jobs of government should be to deal in transportation. Transportation is important. Being conservative, I understand the desperate need to put a lid on certain discretionary spending and spending on bureacracies and their wasteful/harmful programs, BUT in a microcosm, transportation is becoming a defining issue and regions/cities that don't properly invest will fall to the wayside to more cities and areas and states that are more progressive in this department. Companies will leave, people won't continue to move in, etc. On a macro scale, the U.S. is losing out big time to many other nations, from developing/developed countries in Asia to western Europe to countries like Brazil and Chile. The biggest issue separating us from them is transportation. Some of those countries are expensive, socialist, and what have you but they are still booming and increasing their GDPs like we once did. We slowed our GDP increase significantly twice when we enacted the fed income tax and when we quit investing in infrastructure/transportation.
The people in PTC need to realize that they are a part of the whole. The sum of the parts of Atlanta is nothing if there isn't the glue to hold it all together. Policies and programs divide, transportation connects. Let's focus more on transportation and realize that we do need to be spending more regionally on transit if at all just to maintain what we already have.
PTC would not be here without Atlanta. Sure the citizens of PTC don't want to pay taxes to fund something in Atlanta, but let's dig deeper and realize that a healthy thriving Atlanta that attracts jobs and people helps PTC by providing all of the big city amenities PTC residents use and by sustaining PTC's biggest employer: Hartsfield. If the leaders there want to dick around the hand that feeds them and other stupid municipalities follow suit, Atlanta will ultimately fail. There is already too much squabbling and too many little jurisdictions, which is why I feel there needs to be some consolidations so that stuff can be accomplished and regional plans can be enacted.
You have a good point there, arjay. There are times when government-sponsored projects do come down the pipeline that could be considered wasteful.
I consider Sonny Perdue's "Go Fish" initiative to be wasteful. I consider farm subsidies to be wasteful, because they increase poverty in the 3rd world & is partially to blame for illegal immigration. I also consider the whole Iraq war to be VERY wasteful.
But then again, what waste is to one person is a treasure to another. Just because a little waste in government happens every now and then doesn't mean that government itself should simply be thrown out. The processes simply needs to be streamlined, that's all, I would think.
Quote:
Originally Posted by arjay57
I'm not sure what you're saying is a stretch. Obviously many governmental functions benefit the larger community, but that doesn't mean taxpayers have to accept and support every government expenditure. And it certianly doesn't mean every government expenditure is wise, cost effective, or efficiently implemented.
I can think of scads of projects that are complete boondoggles, ranging from the corrupt and wasteful to the merely ill-advised or moronic. Why shouldn't I have the right to express my views on that?
Telling me that running water is a shared responsibility hardly means I've given up the right to address or object to policies that seem dumb or ineffective.
Them thar is politics in a representative democracy.
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