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Old 11-07-2010, 08:59 PM
 
15,081 posts, read 9,828,472 times
Reputation: 3607

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Quote:
Originally Posted by AcidSnake View Post
That is arguable. But to be a little more precise, I disagree with your assertion.

According to the U.S. Census Bureau the babyboom generation are those who were born between 1946-1964. Most of the major societal improvements that started with FDR's New Deal programs in 1933 thru Eisenhower's interstate highway system in the 1950's and ending with Lyndon Baines Johnson's Great Society programs took place in that same timeframe.
Well, no need to quibble, but the boomers began entering the work force in the late 60s. As you know, much of the work on Atlanta's interstates and major roads was done in the 70s-90s, and of course it's continuing today. The massive "Freeing the Freeways" program was carried out in the 80s, GA 400 was built in the 90s and GA 316 was just done this decade if I recall. Boomers have built things like MARTA, the Talmadge Bridge, the Dome, Turner Field, most of Altanta's modern skyline, huge port facilities, etc., etc. They're currently spearheading the massive revamp of Atlanta's sewer system, the Beltline, Atlantic Station, and on and on.

As I say, there's obviously a great deal of work remaining to be done and all generations have ot participate. And there's always a lot of overlap. But it's ridiculous to claim that baby boomers haven't made massive contributions to America's infrastructure. Run down the list of prominent architects, engineers, contractors, developers, politicians and see who's been taking care of business.

It's the same in every field -- computer technology, medicine, communications, materials science, space exploration. Who started the environmental movement? Who lead the civil rights movement, the womens movement, the battle for gay rights?

Generational blaming is really nonsense. Of course we can find fault with many aspects of every prior generation, and probably every future one as well. But to claim that the postwar generation somehow shirked its responsibility in ways that other generations haven't is absurd. I daresay the Gen Xer's, Gen Yer's and Millenials and whatever is coming along next have profited very nicely from the labor, wisdom and vision of their elders.

 
Old 11-07-2010, 09:41 PM
 
Location: Atlanta
3,773 posts, read 2,948,159 times
Reputation: 1944
Quote:
Originally Posted by arjay57 View Post
Well, no need to quibble, but the boomers began entering the work force in the late 60s. As you know, much of the work on Atlanta's interstates and major roads was done in the 70s-90s, and of course it's continuing today. The massive "Freeing the Freeways" program was carried out in the 80s, GA 400 was built in the 90s and GA 316 was just done this decade if I recall. Boomers have built things like MARTA, the Talmadge Bridge, the Dome, Turner Field, most of Altanta's modern skyline, huge port facilities, etc., etc. They're currently spearheading the massive revamp of Atlanta's sewer system, the Beltline, Atlantic Station, and on and on.

As I say, there's obviously a great deal of work remaining to be done and all generations have to participate. And there's always a lot of overlap. But it's ridiculous to claim that baby boomers haven't made massive contributions to America's infrastructure. Run down the list of prominent architects, engineers, contractors, developers, politicians and see who's been taking care of business.

It's the same in every field -- computer technology, medicine, communications, materials science, space exploration. Who started the environmental movement? Who lead the civil rights movement, the womens movement, the battle for gay rights?

Generational blaming is really nonsense. Of course we can find fault with many aspects of every prior generation, and probably every future one as well. But to claim that the postwar generation somehow shirked its responsibility in ways that other generations haven't is absurd. I daresay the Gen Xer's, Gen Yer's and Millenials and whatever is coming along next have profited very nicely from the labor, wisdom and vision of their elders.
Ok ... hold up a second here...

I need to make sure that something is understood, because it isn't being shown in several of the posts. Just like I told that other guy I never said baby boomers weren't doing a -- thing and being lazy or just laughing at poor people.

I never said nor intended to say that babyboomers never paid any taxes or never made any investments infrastructure.

What I did say is we have been lowering tax collections, especially when compared to GDP. The costs of this has largely been -lower- spending in infrastructure compared to how much we previously spent. I would also argue we drove deficits up by cutting taxes and not paying for it.

As I said in a previous posts we are talking about the difference of spending 1% of GDP in transportation infrastructure vs spending a little more than 2% of GDP in transportation infrastructure. So, just be clear this does not say nothing is being spent, but it is saying there have been cuts and reductions all in an effort to lower taxes.

And while I am not trying to trying to start a generational war, I can't help but to notice the generation that has gotten the greatest advantage of tax cuts the last few decades was the baby boomers and in political discourse today they are also the loudest supporters for continuing to lower taxes. It just like the demographic base of the republican base tends to be more older, whiter, and more rural/suburban. Now this is not all of who they are and not to say there aren't people like that who are more democratic, but the support skews that way. They also tend to vote more, so it is no surprised with each election it is always about tax cuts.

In the long run we will have to make more investment in maintenance on the infrastructure we have that is not being fully addressed. We will also have to do more to increase capacity of our infrastructure than we have.

Now my generation could technically steer the same course, but we will be passing on problems to generations after us. We will also pushing ourselves to live a life with higher traffic and more infrastructure failures (collapsing bridges, potholes, etc)

To sum everything up. I am not arguing that every generation isn't participating. What I am arguing is that different generations are participating in different amounts.
 
Old 11-07-2010, 09:56 PM
 
Location: Atlanta
2,825 posts, read 2,394,881 times
Reputation: 1498
I am still in heavy disagreement with you about a lot of this stuff especially the timeline of the planning & construction of Ga 400 (you seem to be pretty good about blurring timelines). But to debate even more on the subject of which generation shares the most blame for the current set of problems would be a lot like splitting hairs. At this point you are correct, to quibble just for quibbling's sake would be a bit futile.

We will agree to disagree and leave it at that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by arjay57 View Post
Well, no need to quibble, but the boomers began entering the work force in the late 60s. As you know, much of the work on Atlanta's interstates and major roads was done in the 70s-90s, and of course it's continuing today. The massive "Freeing the Freeways" program was carried out in the 80s, GA 400 was built in the 90s and GA 316 was just done this decade if I recall. Boomers have built things like MARTA, the Talmadge Bridge, the Dome, Turner Field, most of Altanta's modern skyline, huge port facilities, etc., etc. They're currently spearheading the massive revamp of Atlanta's sewer system, the Beltline, Atlantic Station, and on and on.

As I say, there's obviously a great deal of work remaining to be done and all generations have ot participate. And there's always a lot of overlap. But it's ridiculous to claim that baby boomers haven't made massive contributions to America's infrastructure. Run down the list of prominent architects, engineers, contractors, developers, politicians and see who's been taking care of business.

It's the same in every field -- computer technology, medicine, communications, materials science, space exploration. Who started the environmental movement? Who lead the civil rights movement, the womens movement, the battle for gay rights?

Generational blaming is really nonsense. Of course we can find fault with many aspects of every prior generation, and probably every future one as well. But to claim that the postwar generation somehow shirked its responsibility in ways that other generations haven't is absurd. I daresay the Gen Xer's, Gen Yer's and Millenials and whatever is coming along next have profited very nicely from the labor, wisdom and vision of their elders.

Last edited by AcidSnake; 11-07-2010 at 10:23 PM..
 
Old 11-08-2010, 07:02 AM
 
15,081 posts, read 9,828,472 times
Reputation: 3607
I've got just the plan for you 30-somethings. I think you'll like it. First, you take the entire burden of all the decisions, actions and blunders of the generations that came before. Sorry if you don't like some of them but that's the way the game is played. Then, for the next 40 years you bust your butts, raise and educate your families, look after your friends and your planet, endure your medical problems, live through some wars and wild financial ups and downs, get fired a few times, unravel a few centuries of racism, develop and implement a new transportation system, maybe get divorced, build your buildings and your infrastructure, put the world on a sound financial footing and otherwise do what you think is best.

When all that's done, the generation that hasn't been born yet -- you know, the ones you will raise, educate, spend your time and money on, who will ride on what you've done in your 40 years -- will decide whether you've done your fair share.

By that time you won't have a lot of energy left, so you can catch up to me on the other side and tell me how they scored you. I'm assuming you will have solved most of the world's problems by then.

 
Old 11-08-2010, 07:21 AM
 
Location: Atlanta
2,825 posts, read 2,394,881 times
Reputation: 1498
My generation X & the later will be more than happy to take on all of those burdens and then some...provided that we actually get the opportunity to do so.

So far though many of the current high paying jobs are being held by by our fathers and grandfathers who are unwilling to retire, and any other job that could be considered "livable wage" are and have been sent to third world nations via "free markets". My generation and the later generations would also like a realistic tax rate structure that could actually maintain all of this great infrastructure like the tax rate America had before Ronny Reagan's time in office. The later generations definitely do not want another bridge collapse such as the I-35W in Minnesota in 2007.

So it's gonna be a bit tough, I think. But we will get it done. There is no other choice.

Quote:
Originally Posted by arjay57 View Post
I've got just the plan for you 30-somethings. I think you'll like it. First, you take the entire burden of all the decisions, actions and blunders of the generations that came before. Sorry if you don't like some of them but that's the way the game is played. Then, for the next 40 years you bust your butts, raise and educate your families, look after your friends and your planet, endure your medical problems, live through some wars and wild financial ups and downs, get fired a few times, unravel a few centuries of racism, develop and implement a new transportation system, maybe get divorced, build your buildings and your infrastructure, put the world on a sound financial footing and otherwise do what you think is best.

When all that's done, the generation that hasn't been born yet -- you know, the ones you will raise, educate, spend your time and money on, who will ride on what you've done in your 40 years -- will decide whether you've done your fair share.

By that time you won't have a lot of energy left, so you can catch up to me on the other side and tell me how they scored you. I'm assuming you will have solved most of the world's problems by then.


Last edited by AcidSnake; 11-08-2010 at 07:30 AM..
 
Old 11-08-2010, 09:43 AM
 
15,081 posts, read 9,828,472 times
Reputation: 3607
Go for it! Unfortunately, you have to take the situation as is, just like every other generation. It might help to have a come to Jesus meeting with fathers and grandfathers so you can tell them to go ahead and get out of the way so you can have their high paying jobs. You can also get on them about sending all the other livable wage jobs to third world nations. And don't forget to remind them they had it knocked and are leaving you with an incredibly raw deal.

As for the tax structure, hopefully your generation will be eager to jack up their rates to pay for all the infrastructure. You sure don't want failures like the prior generations have had. My personal opinion is that there's more than enough tax money collected already but that it's spent very unwisely. But that's your call.

Those who will be judging you are not born yet, but once they get here they'll be keeping their eyes on you.
 
Old 11-08-2010, 02:45 PM
 
15,081 posts, read 9,828,472 times
Reputation: 3607
Some interesting comments from former Atlanta mayor Andrew Young.

Quote:
Young criticized the Obama administration, saying the president's key advisers were often out of touch with the current economic plight of the middle class because "the president doesn't have anyone in his administration who has ever had a job. They're all trust fund babies. How can you make decisions for folks who are struggling when you can't relate?"

Still, Young praised Obama's lifelong exposure to cultural diversity and said that training makes him uniquely qualified to interact with world leaders as he forges ahead with his goals of rebuilding the economy and moving the country forward.

***

The Civil Rights icon and former aide to Dr. King also cited inspiration from an unlikely place when Intel asked Young how Atlanta would fare under the leadership of incoming governorNathan Deal.

"I honestly don't know," Young told us. "I thought it was the end of the world when [segregationist] Lester Maddoxwas elected governor. But Lester Maddox got things done. Lester had a sense of right and wrong without a lot of education. He followed his instincts. I still admire him. My hope is that Governor Deal has a similar sense of morality and vision."
Andrew Young discusses the midterm elections, the future of Atlanta under Nathan Deal - Terminus 2.0 - Atlanta Magazine - Blog
 
Old 11-08-2010, 07:35 PM
 
Location: Atlanta ,GA
8,144 posts, read 7,473,133 times
Reputation: 2403
Quote:
Originally Posted by RainyRainyDay View Post
Yes, you younger adults need to get voting and participating in public life if you want to have a say.

Do those who think we baby boomers have shaped society responsibly approve of these figures:

The richest 1 percent of Americans now take home almost 24 percent of income, up from almost 9 percent in 1976.

C.E.O.’s of the largest American companies earned an average of 42 times as much as the average worker in 1980, but 531 times as much in 2001. Perhaps the most astounding statistic is this: From 1980 to 2005, more than four-fifths of the total increase in American incomes went to the richest 1 percent.


Sure, those numbers are from the New York Times (Nov 6, Nicholas Kristoff column), but are they incorrect? If not, why does anyone think these people need tax relief? Notice that last "astounding statistic" ... where's the trickle-down?
The only trickle down is to the kids of these wealthy fammilies
 
Old 11-08-2010, 07:55 PM
 
Location: East Cobb
2,205 posts, read 4,312,548 times
Reputation: 873
Quote:
Originally Posted by afonega1 View Post
The only trickle down is to the kids of these wealthy families
As I was driving home from work this evening I heard Nathan Deal on the radio, saying his plan for boosting the Georgia economy is tax cuts. He was claiming this would generate extra revenue. I love Republican math. I just can't understand why they don't immediately reduce all taxes to zero, since apparently by their logic this would boost tax revenues to infinity.
 
Old 11-08-2010, 09:10 PM
 
903 posts, read 915,828 times
Reputation: 455
Quote:
Originally Posted by RainyRainyDay View Post
As I was driving home from work this evening I heard Nathan Deal on the radio, saying his plan for boosting the Georgia economy is tax cuts. He was claiming this would generate extra revenue. I love Republican math. I just can't understand why they don't immediately reduce all taxes to zero, since apparently by their logic this would boost tax revenues to infinity.
Oh great. As if state revenues weren't already low enough.

When voters figure out that tax cuts + spending cuts = significant layoffs, they ain't gonna be happy. I worry particularly about teacher jobs in this state. Classrooms are already maxed out in many districts, and I'm not seeing where a lot of these cuts are going to come from.
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