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After many years of Georgia Tech fighting it, the Board of Regents has approved Electrical, Mechanical, and Civil Engineering programs for UGA and Georgia Southern. Until now, Georgia Tech was the only state engineering program in Georgia (well, UGA has some bioengineering programs already). Mercer has had engineering for 25 years but their program doesn't seem all that significant.
Does this move help the state or should we have continued to put all our eggs in one basket, namely Georgia Tech?
After many years of Georgia Tech fighting it, the Board of Regents has approved Electrical, Mechanical, and Civil Engineering programs for UGA and Georgia Southern. Until now, Georgia Tech was the only state engineering program in Georgia (well, UGA has some bioengineering programs already). Mercer has had engineering for 25 years but their program doesn't seem all that significant.
Does this move help the state or should we have continued to put all our eggs in one basket, namely Georgia Tech?
Georgia Tech will continue to be an excellent Engineering school either way and will continue to attract the top talent for engineers. However, with UGA's and GT's program more high skilled engineers will be produced here and a few decades down the road it will help attract business firms that have a high demand for top talent. Many businesses look for a high concentration of universities that produce the types of students they want. (You don't want all your eggs from the same basket).
After 5 or 6 years UGA will be competing against Clemson and Auburn long before it is competing with GT's engineering program.
Ultimately, this will make Atlanta and the state more competitive and at very little cost to both schools.
As for UGA... one of the biggest problems UGA has is engineering and medical programs usually attract more alumni money that create larger endowments. Over time this will help UGA be much more competitive compared to other major state universities like UNC-Chapel Hill and make it easier for it to finance itself as the state legislature continues to cut it's funds more and more.
Georgia can have all the engineering programs in the world, but if our state can't keep any of those graduates here then what's the point? In what be could called a classic "cut-off-the-nose-to-spite-the-face" southern approach to creating laws, our fellow Georgians recently voted in an amendment to the Georgia Constitution that essentially restricts an employee's ability to move from an existing firm to another competitor firm in the industry or even start a new company up.
If these potential engineers happen to find themselves working at a crappy Georgia company with no upward mobility and shows no interests in developing their skills then they have no true recourse, at least in Georgia. These students would be better serve moving to another state that doesn't yield so easily to the low-brow culture of the "bubba", a state that allows for greater freedom of labor, which actually helps the "free market"(Coulda swore once upon a time that conservatives claimed to be the defenders of this concept).
This decision to allow UGA to start up its own engineering program is definitely a fail on the part of the Georgia Board Of Regents, but then again, in a state that creates new cities/bureacracies at the drop of a dime, is this type of logic really a surprise?
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Originally Posted by MathmanMathman
After many years of Georgia Tech fighting it, the Board of Regents has approved Electrical, Mechanical, and Civil Engineering programs for UGA and Georgia Southern. Until now, Georgia Tech was the only state engineering program in Georgia (well, UGA has some bioengineering programs already). Mercer has had engineering for 25 years but their program doesn't seem all that significant.
Does this move help the state or should we have continued to put all our eggs in one basket, namely Georgia Tech?
I'm a Tech student and I'm not worried. I think it's good for the state, but considering how expensive it is to put in the necessary infrastructure to build a good engineering program, it will be a while before UGA's program is even able to compete with the Auburns and Floridas.
My only question is that not only is the Board of Regents in cahoots and a tough circle to crack for any of the schools, let alone Tech (it may have been tough for UGA in this case, but Tech is on the outside of the Board in comparison and it's much harder for Tech to get a approval for anything), now the money or lack thereof for Georgia Public Universities will be spread even thinner. Tech already relies on a large endowment that approaches the size of a good private school because the state doesn't really support it and can't support it anymore. With UGA's new engineering program and lack of a really large endowment, it will no doubt need support from the Board and the state, leaving other schools like Tech and GSU to dry.
I really think that Tech ought to go private (I have enquired about this and people say it will never happen). I know it was started as a public institition to serve the state of GA, but the state of GA does not help the school very much anymore (job creation wise too as a poster pointed out). I will most likely be leaving the state for a job and at least half of everyone I know graduating in December is doing the same. Tech has no problem raising money privately and in fact we have one of the highest alumni giving rates and one of the highest alumni average donation amounts. If we go private, the largely out of state out of country student body would likely not change and many students will be on scholarship or in fellowships regardless. This would also free up the state and the Regents to focus on UGA and GSU and Tech would not be beholden to the Board anymore (a Board that does not sympathize with Tech very much). And I might add that Tech and Emory already have a huge sharing or resources and programs.
Georgia can have all the engineering programs in the world, but if our state can't keep any of those graduates here then what's the point? In what be could called a classic "cut-off-the-nose-to-spite-the-face" southern approach to creating laws, our fellow Georgians recently voted in an amendment to the Georgia Constitution that essentially restricts an employee's ability to move from an existing firm to another competitor firm in the industry or even start a new company up.
If these potential engineers happen to find themselves working at a crappy Georgia company with no upward mobility and shows no interests in developing their skills then they have no true recourse, at least in Georgia. These students would be better serve moving to another state that doesn't yield so easily to the low-brow culture of the "bubba", a state that allows for greater freedom of labor, which actually helps the "free market"(Coulda swore once upon a time that conservatives claimed to be the defenders of this concept).
Yeah, because Georiga is the only state where non-compete laws are enforcable.
I've spoken to some higher ups and yes, it is unlikely Tech will go private. Tech has considered it but to do so, Tech would have to buy its way out and a lot of the campus is "owned" by the BOR. It would be an expensive buy out.
UGA also has a decent endowment. The market drop has made a difference but from the latest figures I can find, UGA as over $500 million and Tech $1.3 billion. Despite having facilities in place, Georgia Southern will still struggle as they have around $30 million.
But I think Tech does well to stay in the university system. State appropriations have been cut but Tech gets around $200 million in state support. The state covers about 1/4 to 1/3 of Tech's total budget. The rest is from tuition, endowment, research contracts, grants, gifts, sales, etc. All schools engage in fundraising to supplement their programs. Tech is no different. For the new Clough Learning Commons, the state is giving $60 million and Tech has to raise the other $25 million. And that's not uncommon. The Marcus Nanotechnology center has his name because of his big gift of $15 million but the state of Georgia contributed $45 million. And the BOR approves stuff for Georgia Tech all the time. Don't get any ideas that Tech is being short-changed by the BOR. The BOR might show some favoritism toward UGA but this recent vote was 9-8 so it's not a UGA BOR.
It is true UGA will not become a big engineering school overnight.
But, I do want to spot out that UGA already has an engineering program that will provide starting facilities and teachers. It has operated under the umbrella as "agricultural engineering." They will have an easier, cheaper time getting a small engineering program than most people seem to think. They are anticipating being able to handle 500 students in within 5 years and most of that is probably without building new facilities.
UGA's endowment is a tough one to crack. They do not advertise it much at all. I researched it thoroughly in an effort to update wikipedia's UGA article (You can find more comments on the wiki's discussion page if your interested). They have money in about 5 different non-profits for different purposes, so it gets confusing fast. They also have rather extensive land holdings, some are for research centers, 4-H centers, but alot of it is donated or owned for a long time and does not have a current use, so part of of UGA's endowment is in real estate holding. This is becoming common for some major universities, but not for others.
(Some people Northeast Joke that Harvard is a Real Estate investment company that also happens to teach a few students)
Don't get me wrong...I'm not arguing GT doesn't have a nice large endowment. It does.
UGA needs to eventually have a strong engineering and/or medical program to generate a much bigger endowment. These are big money moneymakers in the long run, so that is one reason why they want to get these programs started.
Also... I wouldn't think of making Tech private. First the state does own the school. It does provide some support, even if not enough (UGA is in the same boat I might add). It would make it hard for students to get the HOPE to attend GT, which is an indirect way the state funds the universities. The state also has the ability of providing support in the future...should economic realities 100 years out change.
I also disagree with the sentiments that UGA controls the BOR. They have been trying to get an engineering program for a really long time. This is a decades old issue and they only got it on the 9-8 vote. They also suffer the same funding strategies of the BOR and the legislature pulling the choke leash tightly.
AcidSnake:
While I appreciate your sentiment and agree with you on that other issue.... Holding other issues/variables fixed...having more engineering universities in the state will be better for the state. I don't think that amendment, which you know I really don't like, will make our universities' effect on the state null and void.
Board of Regents members graduating from UGA vs Tech: 12 to 4 (UGA:GT). Unbiased? Think again.
Endowments: You are correct in that Tech does not invest heavily in real estate or land. See This Link (http://www.gtf.gatech.edu/Asset_Allocation_20091130.pdf - broken link) for where the foundation's investments go. However, if you include all three of UGA's foundations, they are about a third the size of Tech's one, including the Arch Foundation, UGA Fundation, etc and including land holdings etc. Don't discount Tech's investments in RE in Midtown either, though. They are hefty hefty and are not part of the Foundation since they are owned separately by the school and aren't run as investments. Think Tech Square and nearby buildings in that regard.
Tech has raised an additional $925 million for a specific capital campaign since 2004 and plans to raise $1.5B from now til 2015 for a separate capital campaign (public announcement is taking place right now in the Student Center).
Tech's student body, myself included, is very very out of state already. When I first entered I had a small scholarship through a private local (where I'm from) alumni association. Lots of students have scholarships separate from the in-state HOPE and through the interest generated on the Foundation many graduate students receive Fellowships (an out of state fraternity brother of mine just received one). I still contend that Tech should get the hek out of the BOR and I personally don't give a care in the world what the other colleges in the state do. Tech should continue to foster its joint programs with Emory and a good working relationship with UGA and GSU, no matter what.
In today's Technique, the BOR "approved" demolition of the Bill Moore tennis center and construction and renaming of a new one. Why do they have to approve of such a thing when our funding for it thus far and as far as I know into the future came from private sources??? Huh? We are beholden to a bunch of UGA grads I tell you. Basically everything Tech does aside from HOPE is funded privately through interests from the Foundation, capital campaigns, and private gift giving fundraising for specific projects (like our soon to be retrofitted AMC, also to be renamed).
UGA is the state school. There are far more UGA students and alum and support bases in this state. UGA is more locally known, Tech is the most "international" and perhaps even the most out of state school in the state. UGA also has capital campaigns, etc, but it relies a lot less on them and receives more funding from the state. There would probably never be talk of privatizing UGA but it is on the minds of people afiliated with Tech, and for legitimate reasons.
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