Dunwoody vs East Cobb (Atlanta, Sandy Springs: townhouses, neighborhoods, elementary schools)

[GF72]

Oh whoops that was a typo, I meant less than 20 minutes from EC to Perimeter Mall. Although 400 to the mall is certainly not 10 minutes. It usually takes me about 12 minutes to get from Lower Roswell Road to Perimeter Mall, unless Abernathy is backed up in the single-lane stretch.

[lastminutemom]

One of the biggest differences between East Cobb, N. Fulton, and most of Gwinnett then the more mature closer in neighborhoods like Druid Hills, Dunwoody, and Sandy Springs, for example, is that the newer developed areas are far more family friendly. They have LIttle Gyms (I know there is now one in Buckhead, but not until recently), Gymborees etc pratically on every block. Fully developed recreational services.

By the way, East Cobb has the Avenue, who needs Perimter Mall? (I am so not a mall person...)

Another difference is that, at least as of few years ago, almost everyone in East Cobb was using public schools. One of my friends lived in a neighborhood, that wasn't huge, that needed 3 busses to get all the kids to elementary school. I don't think, even in Dunwoody with Vanderlyn and Austin, that you find that. What else you are less likely to find is families who go public k to 12. In Dunwoody, many families jump ship at middle school, in Sandy Springs, many families only use public school for high school. One of my good friends, whose youngest child has not gone to college, lives in a great house in Garden Hills. They never went to public school. A couple of years ago, her youngest daughter told her how she wished, that when they were younger, they had moved to a neighborhood where everyone did go to the same school. She really envied her friends who had grown up in that type of neighborhood.

My children haven't had that experience either and I sometimes wished that we did as a family as well, but the short commute for my husband has been a big help through the years.

Spacelord has a point -- lots of things need to factor into your decision. I do think that the parts of East Cobb that have no multi-family housing will be fine. Dunwoody, in my opinion, might be in trouble, all that development around the perimeter mall area is troubling. What looks nice now, doesn't always stay nice long term.

[GF72]

Originally Posted by lastminutemom

Dunwoody, in my opinion, might be in trouble, all that development around the perimeter mall area is troubling. What looks nice now, doesn't always stay nice long term.

I hope not. I really like the Perimeter area. I don't think it'll go bad. It's all rich white collar workers for the most part, and being so centrally located that development around Perimeter isn't going to be cheap and there are plenty of successful yuppie and student types lined up for those spots.

Besides, that's not really Dunwoody anyway, that's Perimeter. The real Dunwoody, up around Chamblee Dunwoody/Mount Vernon and that whole area and all the old neighborhoods and townhouses around there will probably be fine.

[spacelord75]

A really smart thing about East Cobb is that they have not allowed apartments to compromise the base of residents that live there. Whenever the majority of an area owns their property, they will invest themselves into preserving the quality of that area. I'm glad that Perimeter and Dunwoody have at least tried to keep it to condos and townhomes, but I wish they would have fought against many of the apartments going up back in the 90's.

[nrgpill]

Originally Posted by lastminutemom

Dunwoody, in my opinion, might be in trouble, all that development around the perimeter mall area is troubling. What looks nice now, doesn't always stay nice long term.

I know you looked around the metro area and saw places like Gwinnett Place or Northlake to come to this conclusion, but your opinion is flawed if you have not studied underlying economics for these projects. Have you seen the transaction prices for the lots that have been acquired for these projects? Would you say the developments in Midtown are troubling? Because that is essentially what you are saying. SS/Dunwoody is not going to let its biggest tax base go the way of Gwinnett Place or Northlake.

In fact, Perimeter CID is forecasting that the district will have more population than anywhere in the metro by 2025, and job growth from 115k (current) to 213k.

[GF72]

Originally Posted by nrgpill

I know you looked around the metro area and saw places like Gwinnett Place or Northlake to come to this conclusion, but your opinion is flawed if you have not studied underlying economics for these projects. Have you seen the transaction prices for the lots that have been acquired for these projects? Would you say the developments in Midtown are troubling? Because that is essentially what you are saying. SS/Dunwoody is not going to let its biggest tax base go the way of Gwinnett Place or Northlake.

In fact, Perimeter CID is forecasting that the district will have more population than anywhere in the metro by 2025, and job growth from 115k (current) to 213k.

I agree. I highly doubt Perimeter will fall prey to the same fates as Gwinnett Place or Northlake.

[lastminutemom]

What you may not be aware of is that before all the new construction at Perimeter (which by the way is only about 40-60 percent owner occupied), there were nearly 4000 apartments. Already, these apartments, as well as some of the large newly opened complexes tucked in along Ashford-Dunwoody are offering lower rent. New complexes almost always negatively impact the price of older apartments.

Will it become like Gwinnett Place Mall? Nah, because there isn't anywhere to build another mall even remotely close. But, it probably will have an impact on the schools (all of them not just a few) and that will impact the community. I hope I am wrong.

This is not a short term prediction.

As to midtown, I do wonder what happens when growth slows in metro Atlanta or switches demographically from young single people to perhaps older married people. Not just in midtown but all over close in Atlanta. I worry about the resale market, once Atlanta is built out.

One state legislator recently told me, while they are tearing down office buildings all over the perimter area to put in housing, that probably in 10 years, they will be tearing down the housing to build offices ...

Do we all think that people living in Atlanta really want to raise their kids in attached housing, when by adding some time to their commute they can live in a single family home, in a neighborhood with lots of kids, in a school system which everyone uses, etc.

[spacelord75]

When the in-flow of new residents reaches and ebb, it will affect the entire Metro area, not just the Midtown or D'woody (ie, areas with a lot of new high-concentration housing). Think about the trickle down effect - housing prices drop in the condos precipitiously, thus causing the surrounding single family homes to drop, thus causing a surge of people back into town who are sick of commuting and are so used to paying a lot for daycare (b/c both parents work) that paying for private school is really not that big of a deal, and they probably get a much better deal on their house b/c of the aforementioned affect on housing. It is just like business....what is your competitive advantage? I do not believe schools alone are enough - this is a created advantage which can be bypassed or created by a community. So what does that leave - commute, cool location, etc. I personally believe a lot of the outer suburbs are going to suffer greatly when the influx of people stalls out completely (who knows when that is). They are basically only existing because of cheap land values which, in your scenario, would disappear when supply "in town" well exceeds demand. You could then argue "well, they will be even CHEAPER then" but you reach a point where the difference is negligible and the intangibles of a shorter commute and a more robust/unique local environment wins out. I lump Dunwoody in with "in town" areas because it has become the epitome of an "edge city," basically a city outside a city, which can live on it's own (by "Dunwoody" I am encapsulating the Perimeter Area as well). You can also attach lower E. Cobb to this and, of course, Sandy Springs. These are all, of course, my opinions, but it will be very interesting to see what happens over the years - I personally hope the above scenario does not occur.

[jxu66]

There are always intown supporters and there are always suburb supporters, of course.

In atlanta, it is very complex situation. For one, here are multiple job centers. Many of them are outside of perimeter. So don't always assume that you have shorter commute if you live intown.

Also, atlanta revitialization just happened coincidentally with a period of time when Atlanta decreased crime a lot. My worry is that if the crime in Atlanta goes up (which has been for past two years), people will start fleeing again.

[nrgpill]

State legislator is probably right. I see two unavoidable trends in the Perimeter district: First, high rise office parks with campus like surrounding will eventually get redeveloped. Sidewalks will be added and widened. Ground level retail space will be added to make the area more pedestrian friendly. Also, some of the landscaped green space will yield additional buildings. Second, low slung rentals (your average Post apartment) will be torn down in favor of higher-density, most likely mid-towers, condos or apartments. When another developer steps in and sees a potential for even a taller building that is ideally situated near a Marta station, well, the cycle will continue to yield additional office, living, and retail space.

The cycle will continue until the developers exhaust all their get-rich-quick schemes and can only expect returns similar to a more stable investment vehicle. What I can be certain of, however, is that every subsequent redevelopment will be of higher quality simply due to the price of the lot which the property sits on. I don't expect The Concourse to turn into a giant pawn shop or check cashing anytime soon.