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Old 10-18-2011, 05:20 PM
 
Location: Virginia Highland, GA
1,940 posts, read 3,852,500 times
Reputation: 1242

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mutiny77 View Post
Here's an updated figure. Same result: Riverbanks Zoo and Garden : Media Center : Media Releases

Again, a place doesn't have to be a hotbed of tourism to have successful venues. Not sure why you're having such difficulty comprehending that...

Fine,

I definitely think that the zoo there is beautiful I am not fighting with you about that or anything for that matter. I think the the HOF could have done a whole lot better in Columbia than boring Charlotte. Columbia has a lot more going for it than Charlotte.
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Old 10-18-2011, 06:39 PM
 
Location: Atlanta
6,458 posts, read 7,282,964 times
Reputation: 4205
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mutiny77 View Post
LOL, I am a Georgia resident. And show me where I ever said Charlotte was a tourist destination.

A city doesn't have to be a tourist destination for one particular venue to do well. Columbia, SC's zoo draws more people than Atlanta's, but that doesn't mean that Columbia is necessarily a tourist destination--certainly not larger than Atlanta.

You need a baptism in logic and reason. And spare me your copious uses of the term "delusional" and the smiley. It's so old.
<--- Sorry Had to hehe
I would be very careful with the insults, like "you need a baptism of logic and reason." Whether you agree or disagree with what I or others are about to say, there are alot of things you aren't considering in your arguments. Keep the discussion serious, but insult free and it will be much more productive.

I see a simple, but important flaw to some of your conclusions. It is a small one, but a very important one and it directly affects all the different comments you keep making on this subject.

Simply, you have to consider the marketing and target markets much better. Who the people are that visit an attraction? Where do they come from? How much are they willing to pay? etc...

A themed museum has a different target market from a local or regional zoo. There are a few specific zoos out there that are so grand that they draw people from across the nation, (San Diego and the National Zoo come to mind), but ultimately they are the exception. A zoo is usually like an enhanced local/regional park that charges admission and has specific purpose (research/education/etc...). They don't typically draw in tourists from out of town. They don't typically draw in people that are in town at a convention, which might be stuck near their hotel/convention w/o a car or knowledge of the whole city. They typically are for local residents and in some cases a region (neighboring rural areas or smaller cities nearby that are in range of a school field trip). Zoo operations also are often subsidized for the public good. Museums are often given concessions and incentives, but often the hope is they operate on their own. There are some exceptions to this though.

A themed museum makes use of the same market as a zoo, but their target market is much much bigger. They really get a bulk of their customers from all over the US. -Most- visitors will only go there once or twice in a lifetime. Local visitors will go there more, but it usually isn't more than once or twice a year. What they look for is a location where there is a huge change-over of new people from all over. Downtown Atlanta happens to have this. It has the fourth largest convention center. It has one of the biggest and busiest trade marts and one of the largest agglomeration of convention hotels in the country. In other words... there is a constant flow of new people to the area. One any given average day there are 20,000-30,000 people there that usually don't live or work nearby. On peak days during the larger conventions there are 100,000-200,000 in the area that don't live or work in the area. This is where museums thrive. They don't worry about repeat business as much.

Also keep in mind... this is a direct reflection of what has already happened... They already are having attendance problems. What Charlotte does has is a moderate flow of day-to-day people that are intown for business at local headquarters, so they do have a moderate market base for something. It just isn't as big as other places. This just happens to be one of Atlanta's larger strengths. It isn't just that that we are a much larger city.


I also have to disagree about the placement of the museum at their speedway. That would be the nail in its coffin! The museum during racing events would be working at peak-daily capacity during race events. They would probably turn people away. The problem with racing and marketing racing is it takes up a ton of space and usually on the periphery of a city. Atlanta and Charlotte is no exception to this whatsoever. What happens is there are a few weekends of extremely high impact, but most of the time there is --no-impact--.

--A large theme museum can not exist on those few big weekends alone. It needs a constant stream of visitors day in and day out.--

I don't have the data, but I wouldn't be surprised if that museum already has a heavy/near capacity attendance on racing weekends just being placed downtown. I bet it even helps pull -some- racing fans downtown and decide to stay and eat downtown as well. So, in my eyes if the museum was moved... there wouldn't be a huge a gain in attendance on racing weekends, but there would be a huge loss of attendance on every other day.

What they could so is have a small satellite exhibit at the race site. They might even build exhibit storage there, since it would be cheaper there than downtown. They could charge a small admission for a smaller footprint and advertise their main museum, but ultimately they need a constant stream of people.

What I do wonder though... would there be and benefits to these different museums in different cities making agreements to have some rotating traveling exhibits between each other? To help draw repeat local business, as well as, advertise a visit to the main museum to people in other cities.

Imagine a small NASCAR exihibit occasionally set up at the College Football Hall of Fame and and vice versa?
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Old 10-18-2011, 07:19 PM
 
Location: Atlanta ,GA
9,086 posts, read 12,887,631 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mutiny77 View Post
It was just built in the wrong location. Should have been out near the speedway since it's such a niche museum; it needs to be closer to the fan base. Other new venues in uptown Charlotte--the art museums, performing arts center, African American cultural center--are doing just fine and are actually exceeding expectations.
Well im cant say it would have since thats not the decision they chose to go with .I know that a city like Charlotte can support more attractions but they must be more like those things that appeal to many people.Tourist from outside of the state who are not NASCAR enthusiastic will not go too far from the city to see something they would only be interested as just "something" to do.If its too far from the core they just wont go accept those who find that interesting.A Zoo,Cultural Center,are somethings that could survive further out,because of local traffic and out of state visitors.Ultimately its still best to have these attraction near the greatest amount of activity and foot traffic.
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Old 10-18-2011, 07:19 PM
 
Location: Atlanta
6,458 posts, read 7,282,964 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mutiny77 View Post
You make good points, but I still largely disagree. The only time race fans typically visit uptown en masse is during the huge Speedstreet festival. Otherwise, they are confined to Concord and the University area. One of the biggest attractions in the general area of the Speedway is Concord Mills mall, so there's already something in the vicinity that draws people on a more constant basis. Even if not Concord, it's possible they should have considered Mooresville just to the north of Charlotte which is really where the focus of the NASCAR industry is in the area. You have a lot of the racers' facilities up there which a lot of fans tour. Either way, I think the facility itself should have been closer to the actual action. It was a nice idea to put it in uptown, but it's pretty much out of the way for the crowd most likely to patronize the venue.
Well... again I find myself trying to get you to think about the marketing. Who they people are -and- where people are from.

I think in today's suburban society people hold malls to too high of standards. In their lives they know that is where alot of people go. The problem is more often than not .... it is alot of the same people again and again.

Malls are local things. They usually are researched in 5 mile market areas for their typical customers.

A theme museums market area is well a few thousand mile trade area, but the caveat is most people aren't going to travel far just to visit a museum, so they locate next to something that causes people to do that. They usually do market research based upon who visits the area on a one-time basis.

In this case they are positioned right next to the Charlotte convention center for this very reason. It is just perhaps too large of a museum for the traffic Charlotte produces. The convention center across a year will produce many more potential -unique visitors- than a typical mall+surrounding areas will.

Also remember... there is a maximum number of people a museum can handle in a day. Anyone that went through the ticket system at the new World of Coke and the Georgia Aquarium when they first opened are aware of this.

On race days their goal isn't necessarily to get every person in town for the race, but more so what the capacity of the museum to. So they don't have to be at ground zero to do well on race weekends.

The real problem in this case example is... they took the best estimate possible (800,000) to sell the idea, but probably should have anticipated 500,000-600,000 visitors and then the recession hit lowering the numbers of visitors another 100,000-150,000. Part of the problem is the financial requirements for the museum was planned with 800,000 visitors vs 550,000.
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Old 10-18-2011, 09:41 PM
 
Location: West Cobb County, GA (Atlanta metro)
9,190 posts, read 29,622,705 times
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WARNING ** WARNING ** WARNING ** WARNING ** WARNING **


There are some pot shots being taken at posters by some in this thread. We're not here for that.

1) Comment on the topic, and ONLY the topic. Do not comment about other posters, their posting history, or how you feel about them.

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3) If you are insulted/attacked, DO NOT copy/quote the attack and then respond to it with one of your own. Use the report post icon in the corner of the offending post(s) and then IGNORE the person who did it - we will look into it from there.

Thank you.
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Old 10-18-2011, 09:49 PM
 
28,180 posts, read 24,739,302 times
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I wonder if people aren't just museumed-out? Nowadays it seems like anybody can slap together some pictures and videos and maybe a few artifacts and call it a museum.
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Old 10-20-2011, 01:59 PM
 
5,005 posts, read 5,761,307 times
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Quote:
Columbia has a lot more going for it than Charlotte.
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Old 10-20-2011, 06:18 PM
 
27,834 posts, read 24,901,772 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeP View Post
Right. I like Columbia and it has its own set of advantages that Charlotte doesn't have (state capital, downtown university, built on a river), but overall that was a pretty inaccurate and silly statement.
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Old 10-21-2011, 10:05 AM
 
Location: Atlanta ,GA
9,086 posts, read 12,887,631 times
Reputation: 2908
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mutiny77 View Post
Right. I like Columbia and it has its own set of advantages that Charlotte doesn't have (state capital, downtown university, built on a river), but overall that was a pretty inaccurate and silly statement.
Well its his opinion.He may like that its a university town.Some people hate Atlanta because its too big for there taste.I would not call it silly just not the popular conscientious.
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Old 10-21-2011, 10:21 AM
 
3,209 posts, read 4,517,712 times
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I went to Columbia and have to say I was impressed. The area around the Capitol was far, far nicer than Atlanta's. Definitely a grander and more beautiful seat of government for the state. But Charlotte definitely wins in terms of having major industries and being a more substantial dot on the map. Also located in a better state.
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