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Old 05-01-2011, 04:03 PM
 
Location: Atlanta ,GA
9,086 posts, read 12,895,736 times
Reputation: 2908

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Aristotle View Post
Some of you might not be that old but I remember downtown Atlanta in the 1970s and 1980s...dead...dead...dead! After I visited there in the early 1980s, I vowed never to visit the place again! After all, being located in NC, many more interesting cities up I-95 North (which is where the majority of people from NC relocated for work: DC, NY, etc).

Didn't go back to Atlanta until the early 90s...things were getting better, and now with the Aquarium, World of Coke, CNN Center, expansion of Buckhead, Midtown and post Olympic growth... multi-folds better.

Charlotte's just starting out, and much like Atlanta, they'll have to fabricate a reason to go there. Ultimately, it'll find it's footing (it has to a certain extent) and broaden their offerings (much to the chagrin of some).

For the most part, Atlantans have relished in the fact of being the "it" city in the South for a long time. It now has to share the spotlight with other prosperous Southern metros, not-easy-to-do when you feel superior (almost to a brattish sense). Especially to a smaller, not-so-well known city like Charlotte outside the nascar and banking circuit. 20+ years ago, neither NC or Tenn had professional sports.

The NHOF will do fine in the long run, it opened post the Great Recession with NASCAR popularity down due to a displeased fan-base. Charlotte WILL build multiple attractions downtown, expand and compete heavily in the toursim industry. Why not a Banking Museum or First-in-Flight museum? If the you can make a soda pop museum interesting, surely there are other opportunities (really had my doubts about visiting the World of Coke), attended and thought it was worthwhile; but definitely a one-and-done event and probably will never be a repeat visitor.

No, budding NASCAR drivers (as with country music singers) don't need to launch careers in the respective towns of Charlotte or Nashville, but eventually you'll need to become extremely intimate with either to propel one's career. In the case of Nascar, the business is much larger than "drivers"; there are mechanics, sales force, operations, motorsports vendors (speed channel), etc. Based on your response, you're clueless as to the magnitude of the business, tourist impact, and it's entrenchment in the greater Charlotte/NC region. The Nascar fan base is not relegated to a often described stereotype.

Will Charlotte broaden it's tourist attraction venues? Absolutely, if Atlanta can, surely Charlotte will.

At the end of the day ,regardless of what any of you say,you guys love to be like Atlanta than compared with Birmingham or Nashville
Look can take this anyway you want.Its up to you.Im not trying to be insulting and don't think I have been.I do have my opinion however.Not that it matters but Atlanta being dead in the 70's and 80's was no different than the downtowns of many cities in the U.S. including Manhattan.Times Square was a TERRIBLE place to be.Charlotte was no better even though it was so small then.So its useless dribble for you to even mention that as if it was "exclusively" an Atlanta problem.

As far as an city "relishing" because its bigger is hogwash.Atlanta has always been focused on Atlanta improving.That dates back to when Henry W. Grady promoted the idea of his "New South".It was out of need to advance from being a heavy agriculture society to more emphasis on Engineering,science etc..Out of these ideas is what formed an institution like Georgia Institute of Technology.Today one of the Top 5 engineering universities in America.
That can do attitude and "we are what we say we are" is what fuels Atlanta and nothing else.
There was no other city for Atlanta to try and emulate in the Southeast.So it has been all about being better than it was and is to this today the same plan.Looking where we want to be and what we DON"T WANT TO BE.

The entire Southeast has completely benefited from Atlanta 's growth.Charlotte benefits because its proximity to Atlanta.Not the other way around...not yet at least.
D.C. is great but theres no huge industries to fuel the region of the Southeast like Atlanta has done.As Charlotte grows Atlanta will begin to reap more and it will be a balanced relationship.For now..today?Its just not there.Ive said it time and time again.I meet more people from Charlotte and N.C. tags then ANY other state.

Based on my response? Thats your opinion of what YOU think I know.If it makes you happy..own that.I won't.

I know NASCAR s and industry but its specific.Its not popular everywhere and has really no international following.I have ALWAYS stated before they even laid one brick or chose a location that it belonged in Charlotte but probably should be where it will make the most money which without a doubt is Atlanta.In that thread when it was choosing a site I said this and people from Charlotte got all upset.

You are right.Charlotte is getting its footing.So is Atlanta!DUH!
Unlike Atlanta,Charlotte lacks a history or a specific culture that people can identify with.This Nascar thing should be bigger than just a museum.
All Charlotte known for mostly is home of BANKS..YAWN...How dull can you be?Im not saying Charlotte is dull,but its image is just not there.

If Atlanta had no Coke Museum,Gone With The Wind,MLK Jr or Civil Rights and Civil War attractions,but did have good museums like Charlotte has (such as Bechner and Gantt) plus the other stuff.What would make people see that Atlanta stood out from more than say Indianapolis?
Charlotte might as well be Indiapolis.

I think th should play the NASCAR thing up more.Have streets named after drivers,a park with shrubs made to look like cars,a Yearly Celerity NASCAR event like the AllStar Game or Superbowl does.Make it like a weekend red carpet deal centered around a race with parades downtown.So much could make Charlotte become a destination that people who dont even like NASCAR would come and have a good time.

Atlanta was no better than Charlotte 30years ago.Atlanta created a tourist industry.They made things so people who did come enjoyed themselves and came back.Not just the same old stuff like museums with the typical art,a nice mall,and a night club district.Its got to be more.

I was looking at the pics in the Charlotte forum and I gotta say I love Charlotte skyline.Just beautiful buildings with some nce street art too. Every-time I go uptown Charlotte I always think "clean" and sterile.However unlike in the Atlanta pics forum, there were no pics of "city-life" in Charlotte.Like Historic areas or neighborhoods in the city.

Last edited by afonega1; 05-01-2011 at 04:20 PM..
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Old 05-01-2011, 04:21 PM
 
28,188 posts, read 24,769,791 times
Reputation: 9575
Quote:
Originally Posted by DeaconJ View Post
There were definitely some landmark projects during the 70s and 80s, but there was an overwhelming perception of crime (even moreso than there is now) that kept people away.
I really don't think that was the case. In the 70s and into the mid 80s downtown was still the place to be -- for shopping, for the most prestigious businesses, upscale restaurants and hotels and many other activities. Family gatherings like the Lighting of the Great Tree, going to see Santa and riding the Pink Pig at Rich's were common.

I really don't think the fears of crime came until later. Businesses moved out, as did the upscale retail and dining. MARTA construction pretty much spelled the end of Undergound and it never really regained momentum.

Personally I think a benchmark in the downhill slide was the second Light Up Atlanta event. Things were starting to get rough and there was clearly a disinvestment around Five Points and points south. The centers of activity were moving to midtown, Buckhead and beyond by the late 80s and early 90s and it was evident.
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Old 05-01-2011, 07:04 PM
 
3,385 posts, read 2,969,737 times
Reputation: 3242
Quote:
Originally Posted by afonega1 View Post
At the end of the day ,regardless of what any of you say,you guys love to be like Atlanta than compared with Birmingham or Nashville
Look can take this anyway you want.Its up to you.Im not trying to be insulting and don't think I have been.I do have my opinion however.Not that it matters but Atlanta being dead in the 70's and 80's was no different than the downtowns of many cities in the U.S. including Manhattan.Times Square was a TERRIBLE place to be.Charlotte was no better even though it was so small then.So its useless dribble for you to even mention that as if it was "exclusively" an Atlanta problem.

As far as an city "relishing" because its bigger is hogwash.Atlanta has always been focused on Atlanta improving.That dates back to when Henry W. Grady promoted the idea of his "New South".It was out of need to advance from being a heavy agriculture society to more emphasis on Engineering,science etc..Out of these ideas is what formed an institution like Georgia Institute of Technology.Today one of the Top 5 engineering universities in America.
That can do attitude and "we are what we say we are" is what fuels Atlanta and nothing else.
There was no other city for Atlanta to try and emulate in the Southeast.So it has been all about being better than it was and is to this today the same plan.Looking where we want to be and what we DON"T WANT TO BE.

The entire Southeast has completely benefited from Atlanta 's growth.Charlotte benefits because its proximity to Atlanta.Not the other way around...not yet at least.
D.C. is great but theres no huge industries to fuel the region of the Southeast like Atlanta has done.As Charlotte grows Atlanta will begin to reap more and it will be a balanced relationship.For now..today?Its just not there.Ive said it time and time again.I meet more people from Charlotte and N.C. tags then ANY other state.

Based on my response? Thats your opinion of what YOU think I know.If it makes you happy..own that.I won't.

I know NASCAR s and industry but its specific.Its not popular everywhere and has really no international following.I have ALWAYS stated before they even laid one brick or chose a location that it belonged in Charlotte but probably should be where it will make the most money which without a doubt is Atlanta.In that thread when it was choosing a site I said this and people from Charlotte got all upset.

You are right.Charlotte is getting its footing.So is Atlanta!DUH!
Unlike Atlanta,Charlotte lacks a history or a specific culture that people can identify with.This Nascar thing should be bigger than just a museum.
All Charlotte known for mostly is home of BANKS..YAWN...How dull can you be?Im not saying Charlotte is dull,but its image is just not there.

If Atlanta had no Coke Museum,Gone With The Wind,MLK Jr or Civil Rights and Civil War attractions,but did have good museums like Charlotte has (such as Bechner and Gantt) plus the other stuff.What would make people see that Atlanta stood out from more than say Indianapolis?
Charlotte might as well be Indiapolis.

I think th should play the NASCAR thing up more.Have streets named after drivers,a park with shrubs made to look like cars,a Yearly Celerity NASCAR event like the AllStar Game or Superbowl does.Make it like a weekend red carpet deal centered around a race with parades downtown.So much could make Charlotte become a destination that people who dont even like NASCAR would come and have a good time.

Atlanta was no better than Charlotte 30years ago.Atlanta created a tourist industry.They made things so people who did come enjoyed themselves and came back.Not just the same old stuff like museums with the typical art,a nice mall,and a night club district.Its got to be more.

I was looking at the pics in the Charlotte forum and I gotta say I love Charlotte skyline.Just beautiful buildings with some nce street art too. Every-time I go uptown Charlotte I always think "clean" and sterile.However unlike in the Atlanta pics forum, there were no pics of "city-life" in Charlotte.Like Historic areas or neighborhoods in the city.

LOL, to many people, Atlanta is boring! I like Atlanta, but more of a DC person if I had to live in a major city. As I stated previously, there is marginal difference between making a "soda" pop musem exciting versus say a banking museum (duh). From a distance, both would seem mundane, but it is possible.

Also, you're making my point by attempting to itemize the "greatness" of Atlanta to that of Charlotte in terms of history and prominence. It is rather apparent and does not require a debate; but there is a sense of competition that wasn't of previous concern. Regardless of attitude, Atlanta's "ego" stung a bit to lose the NHOF to Charlotte; no matter how light some of you may make of it. There isn't a need to respond with "it really didn't matter", I understand how little it meant to Atlanta in the grand scheme of things, but losing is losing, no one likes to lose.
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Old 05-01-2011, 09:41 PM
 
3,129 posts, read 5,157,111 times
Reputation: 1588
I don't think it has anything to do with the city its in. I think the entire problem is the demographics aka Nascar fans. They probably just are not interested in going.

This is also a terrible time to open a museum if you are not a large city. With gas prices up and the economy sputtering people are making less trips out of state and staying in state.

Its pathetic it was built with so much taxpayer money. What about taxpayers that DO NOT CARE OR WATCH NASCAR? WTF?
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Old 05-01-2011, 10:34 PM
 
Location: Atlanta ,GA
9,086 posts, read 12,895,736 times
Reputation: 2908
Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Aristotle View Post
LOL, to many people, Atlanta is boring! I like Atlanta, but more of a DC person if I had to live in a major city. As I stated previously, there is marginal difference between making a "soda" pop musem exciting versus say a banking museum (duh). From a distance, both would seem mundane, but it is possible.

Also, you're making my point by attempting to itemize the "greatness" of Atlanta to that of Charlotte in terms of history and prominence. It is rather apparent and does not require a debate; but there is a sense of competition that wasn't of previous concern. Regardless of attitude, Atlanta's "ego" stung a bit to lose the NHOF to Charlotte; no matter how light some of you may make of it. There isn't a need to respond with "it really didn't matter", I understand how little it meant to Atlanta in the grand scheme of things, but losing is losing, no one likes to lose.
Atlanta lost?Perhaps you need to go back and read the title of this post!
I'm not bashing Charlotte and actually I TOTALLY agree with what you say about why some people would say Atlanta is boring.There is no Beach or huge mountains.Thats why I say Atlanta is unique.It created a buzz for itself and made a niche by doing so.

As far as support went for the NASCAR HOF in Atlanta ,there was not much fall out.A lot of people were hoping we would not get it before they made the announcement or at best could care less.We just got the College Football HOF from Cleveland and the announcement of a new Civil Rights Center after the purchase of the King papers so not to many people were upset about the NASCAR going to Charlotte.Like myself who was happy because I thought it needed to go Charlotte as it was most deserving.
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Old 05-02-2011, 09:59 AM
 
Location: metro ATL
8,190 posts, read 11,888,305 times
Reputation: 2698
Quote:
Originally Posted by afonega1 View Post
Im not sure that a NASCAR Museum would work ANYWHERE but one thing for sure is if I were to open an attraction I want it where the market would is more likely to come.
Right, and that market is indeed Charlotte. Of course Atlanta draws more tourists overall, but it doesn't draw more NASCAR enthusiasts; that's Charlotte all day. I simply believe that, while Uptown is a central location, most NASCAR fans are confined to the Lowe's Motor Speedway area and that's where it would see more patronage.
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Old 05-02-2011, 10:27 AM
 
Location: Johns Creek area
9,588 posts, read 8,675,308 times
Reputation: 5092
Charlotte did "win" and Atlanta "lost" the NHOF at the time the selection was announced. Now, hindsight being 20-20, perhaps the loser has become the winner in a financial sense. But, guys, we (ATL) tried to attract it, there was much hoopla about, but it went elsewhere. So, yes, in that sense we lost. Not that I care because loud cars going in left hand circles just doesn't fascinate me, but that's neither here nor there. Regardless, Charlotte is a much more sensical place for it vis-a-vis Atlanta. Now let's move on as it is what it is...
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Old 05-02-2011, 11:08 AM
 
Location: Atlanta ,GA
9,086 posts, read 12,895,736 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Akhenaton06 View Post
Right, and that market is indeed Charlotte. Of course Atlanta draws more tourists overall, but it doesn't draw more NASCAR enthusiasts; that's Charlotte all day. I simply believe that, while Uptown is a central location, most NASCAR fans are confined to the Lowe's Motor Speedway area and that's where it would see more patronage.
Well my point was in the initial threads discussing the selection process was that sure Charlotte was logical but I was under the impression that it seemed that NASCAR was trying to get more exposure.Kinda like how the NFL is now playing some games in Europe.As well as more exposure stateside.So would it not make sense to go where the most people who may not know or are curious to know more and are already in a location they may be for reason other than just NASCAR?The goal would be to get people who are just casual NASCAR spectators vs a crowd who will come NO MATTER where its located.

At first I was not sure it would work in Atlanta but the more i think about the location it was going to be(among other high profile popular attractons),It just made more sense.

In the first year of opening,the Georgia Aquarium in a "landlocked city" had and attendance of 3.5million in its first year!

The World of Coca-Cola welcomes over 1 million guests annually.

Considering it would have been would have been placed ,that is fair projection.Atlanta has more concentrated venues


The Country Music Hall of Fame in Nashville, which draws 450,000 people annually

The Pro Football Hall of Fame in Canton, Ohio, usually draws 200,000 people a year.

NHOFsad they would draw 800,000 visitors in its first 14 months.They managed 102,000.Atlanta ad Kansas who bid each estimated 1million a year.
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Old 05-02-2011, 11:30 AM
 
7,848 posts, read 17,845,544 times
Reputation: 2762
Quote:
Originally Posted by arjay57 View Post
I really don't think that was the case. In the 70s and into the mid 80s downtown was still the place to be -- for shopping, for the most prestigious businesses, upscale restaurants and hotels and many other activities. Family gatherings like the Lighting of the Great Tree, going to see Santa and riding the Pink Pig at Rich's were common.

I really don't think the fears of crime came until later. Businesses moved out, as did the upscale retail and dining. MARTA construction pretty much spelled the end of Undergound and it never really regained momentum.

Personally I think a benchmark in the downhill slide was the second Light Up Atlanta event. Things were starting to get rough and there was clearly a disinvestment around Five Points and points south. The centers of activity were moving to midtown, Buckhead and beyond by the late 80s and early 90s and it was evident.
Actually Atlanta was the murder capital of the nation for a couple of years around 1980 and was near the top for several years in a row with around 300 murders/year...crime was much worse back then and the perception of it was even worse - ala white flight.

Having visited downtown in the mid-80s, it was much less lively than it is today by comparison. There was no Centennial Park, no Underground, no aquarium, not much GA State campus, no ambassadors, etc...most of what makes downtown Atlanta buzz today was simply not there. Yes, there were the two large department stores, but they were well past their prime and easily on the downhill slope by that time.
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Old 05-02-2011, 06:15 PM
 
Location: metro ATL
8,190 posts, read 11,888,305 times
Reputation: 2698
Quote:
Originally Posted by afonega1 View Post
Well my point was in the initial threads discussing the selection process was that sure Charlotte was logical but I was under the impression that it seemed that NASCAR was trying to get more exposure.
Yeah, but I don't think they were trying to do this with the HOF project. That wouldn't have made sense anyway.
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