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Old 12-04-2010, 04:57 PM
 
2,407 posts, read 2,619,737 times
Reputation: 903

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Quote:
Originally Posted by GrowOldGetWise View Post
These people are born into bad luck, so we need to put in place grade +++A schools, boost the education sector 10 fold to reverse this trend. If your angry at their mindset, you better be angry at these old politicians who can remember the times when the U.S. was segregated not too long ago... We have an internal war going on between races, and it's disgusting, all this talk behind closed doors from both sides, yet nobody wants to educate those who are swirling around in a world filled with despair, poverty, ignorance, crime and substance abuse.
The only problem with this is that urban schools routinely spend more money than suburban schools. Georgia spends the 25th most per student in the country. The results don't match the expenditures. Hell, Newark spends upwards of $20,000 per student/year and have they seen results? This is not something we can throw money at to fix. A teacher has a kid for 8 hours a day. A parent has them the other 16. No teacher, no matter how good they are can counteract the bullsh*t a kid is taught at home. Parents need to be parents. The burden should not be at taxpayers to throw more money at this problem.

The problem is not at a National level. It was not George Bush's fault. It is not Obama's fault. The Federal Government has no place in the education system. This should be a function of state and local governments. With this said, perhaps the urban areas might want to start voting the other way because the leaders they have been voting for for the past 100 years have done nothign to improve their situations. "George Bush does not care about Black people?" What has your local representative (state or national) done for you other than sell you the same bag of entitlement sh*t and failed helping hand programs?
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Old 12-04-2010, 05:59 PM
 
28,207 posts, read 24,809,955 times
Reputation: 9576
Quote:
Originally Posted by GrowOldGetWise View Post
Let me say, after I read this, it reminded me of a politician giving a weak response to a huge social problem... "Oh we are spending so much already". If it matters, GA is below the national average for spending on education, but we need more then just money, we need a complete system overhaul and a more profound importance placed on education by the government. We literally lost $9 billion dollars in Iraq in one quick fail swoop, completely stolen and unaccounted for...
Well, you won't get any disagreement from me on Iraq. It was an ill conceived war and the waste boggles the mind.

However, I'm talking about local Atlanta spending on education. $10 billion in one decade is a pretty good chunk of change to raise from the property owners of a medium sized city like Atlanta. I don't know how many of our 500,000 residents actually own property but they're the ones financing the school system. Many of us are stroking checks of $5,000-10,000 a year or more to APS.

And it's a system which, is much smaller than Cobb, Fulton, DeKalb or Gwinnett. It's a system that spends far more per student than other systems. Look down the list and you'll see that the billion dollar plus capital program has given the city first rate facilities. Atlanta hired a superintendent and paid her about half a million a year and provided her a driver earning another $100,000 a year. APS has more administrative employees making over $100,000 a year than any other system in the metro area.

Yet in spite of all the spending here's what we've got. A widespread cheating scandal involving principals and teachers who altered standardized tests and then tried to cover it up. A graduation rate of about 50%. Our students are getting blown away on the SAT by their peers in surrounding counties. And now we're in danger of losing accreditation.

On the evidence, you can make a strong case that what's needed is not simply throwing more money at the problem, but working to get more bang for the buck.
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Old 12-04-2010, 06:11 PM
 
479 posts, read 567,477 times
Reputation: 204
Quote:
Originally Posted by GrowOldGetWise View Post
We literally lost $9 billion dollars in Iraq in one quick fail swoop, completely stolen and unaccounted for... Where are our priorities? It's not here. Wars become "profit making bonanzas" for the politicians and contractors, and weak attempts at reform such as the No Child Left Behind act, become more "profit making bonanzas", and the money literally dissapears! A complete fraud. This won't ever change till we start to hold the policy makers responsible and we keep them under a highly scrutinized watchful eye, because they are REALLY good at throwing money away. We shouldn't go backwards 50-100 years we should really be focusing on reforming the system for the future 50-100 years. Both republicans and democrats have fooled us for so long on what is important for us, that we've forgotten what really is important, the people, the citizens of this country.
Of course everyone knows the educational system is THE model of efficiency, right? Nar a dime ever "disappears" that is spent on education....right....
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Old 12-05-2010, 12:04 PM
 
28,207 posts, read 24,809,955 times
Reputation: 9576
Lots of truth there, AcidSnake. America's middle class is clearly in dire straits. The jobs that made the middle class possible are increasingly going away. Some are outmoded, some have vanished with changes in demand, some have succumbed to automation, and many have vaporized as the nature of the U.S. economy has shifted away from a production mode. Many jobs have simply moved to countries where workers will do them much more cheaply.

These are huge structural issues that will change the nature of things from now on. And you are 100% correct that many of the assumptions and "hidden" privileges that middle class people have relied on in past generations will no longer hold true.

One of the questions in my mind, however, is whether it makes sense to address this by increasing the amount and availability of public assistance. Has that really increased the productivity, inventiveness or motivation of our people? Despite unprecedented spending and opportunities, has the level of education gone up?

I know you and I have talked before about the absurd benefits of so-called "corporate welfare" and there's no question that BS has to be stopped, and the social injustices behind it need to be dealt with. But as I said before, that's not the same problem.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AcidSnake View Post
Regardless of the situation with the hoodrat chick with kids out of wedlock, there is still a need for government assistance. I should know. I was on government assistance for a while as a young 'un.

I know that the LaQuitas & the LaFondas of the world are easy mark for those who would rather that NO minorities, let alone regular Americans get public assistance. To that I say shame on them.

Are you guys invincible? Are you guys immortal? NO and NO. You guys may be comfortable in your well-off jobs now, but it's only a matter of time before the forces of neo-liberalism & global free markets come knocking at your doors and your precious jobs will be outsourced & off-shored to some third-world country.

So quick to talk about privatizing & denying benefits to people... What utter spitefulness. It will be poetic justice when the Captain Ahmed Patels are contracted to start flying your Boeing 777s for Less than $20,000 yearly and the Tran Doan Nyugens are contracted to be your doctors for less than $14,000.

Say good bye to that precious middle class, folks. You will be the first generation who so short-sightedly, bigotedly, and ignorantly voted it away.

I can't wait for that day to come. Then we will see how hardy & independent you guys are. We will see if you are willing to strike it out on your own like big strong frontiers-men without that bad ol' big government holding your hands.

You will deserve whatever gifts of globalism & corporatism that comes your way, you haters of public assistance. Believe it!
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Old 12-05-2010, 02:40 PM
 
3,129 posts, read 5,161,145 times
Reputation: 1588
Quote:
Originally Posted by neil0311 View Post
What we need to do (in my humble opinion) is to distinguish between the folks who have hit a rough patch in an otherwise productive life, and need a bit of temporary help, from those who use taxpayer money as their income due to poor choices in their own lives.

While it's not politically correct to say so, I don't support providing gov't assistance to someone who dropped out of school as a teenager to have a child as an unwed mother, with no means of support for the child or themself. To compound the problem, many times there are multiple children involved, and often no father named or child support being paid. While I don't want to see anyone starve, it's not my responsibility to pay for their mistakes or to pay for the consequences of their poor decisions or lack of parental involvement. Work 3 jobs...get charity from private sources...etc....but it's not my problem.
Great post.
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Old 12-05-2010, 06:08 PM
 
Location: Atlanta
3,463 posts, read 4,128,302 times
Reputation: 2167
At this point Arjay, it doesn't really matter anymore. President Obama is weak. He is weak on so many levels it ain't funny anymore.

He hasn't fought for anything of any substance. Now he's gonna cave on taxcuts to the ultra-wealthy. He won't even try for the simple-majority/reconciliation Senate vote, the tool that the last Prez Bush 2 used with incredible excitement. Obama has bended to Corporations at every opportunity and it is sickening.

I dare anyone who calls him/herself a progressive & a liberal to defend this guy, because I truly think that he is nothing as a U.S. President, a shadow that pales in comparison to great leaders like Abraham Lincoln, Franklin D. Roosevelt, & Lyndon B. Johnson, folks who had the intestinal fortitude to fight for liberalism.

More will suffer without jobs or proper heating assistance, as long as this weak liberal-wannabe is in office.

Quote:
Originally Posted by arjay57 View Post
Lots of truth there, AcidSnake. America's middle class is clearly in dire straits. The jobs that made the middle class possible are increasingly going away. Some are outmoded, some have vanished with changes in demand, some have succumbed to automation, and many have vaporized as the nature of the U.S. economy has shifted away from a production mode. Many jobs have simply moved to countries where workers will do them much more cheaply.

These are huge structural issues that will change the nature of things from now on. And you are 100% correct that many of the assumptions and "hidden" privileges that middle class people have relied on in past generations will no longer hold true.

One of the questions in my mind, however, is whether it makes sense to address this by increasing the amount and availability of public assistance. Has that really increased the productivity, inventiveness or motivation of our people? Despite unprecedented spending and opportunities, has the level of education gone up?

I know you and I have talked before about the absurd benefits of so-called "corporate welfare" and there's no question that BS has to be stopped, and the social injustices behind it need to be dealt with. But as I said before, that's not the same problem.
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Old 12-05-2010, 08:51 PM
 
Location: East Side of ATL
4,150 posts, read 5,762,984 times
Reputation: 1784
Quote:
Originally Posted by AcidSnake View Post
At this point Arjay, it doesn't really matter anymore. President Obama is weak. He is weak on so many levels it ain't funny anymore.

He hasn't fought for anything of any substance. Now he's gonna cave on taxcuts to the ultra-wealthy. He won't even try for the simple-majority/reconciliation Senate vote, the tool that the last Prez Bush 2 used with incredible excitement. Obama has bended to Corporations at every opportunity and it is sickening.

I dare anyone who calls him/herself a progressive & a liberal to defend this guy, because I truly think that he is nothing as a U.S. President, a shadow that pales in comparison to great leaders like Abraham Lincoln, Franklin D. Roosevelt, & Lyndon B. Johnson, folks who had the intestinal fortitude to fight for liberalism.

More will suffer without jobs or proper heating assistance, as long as this weak liberal-wannabe is in office.
Too bad, if he showed his "angry, forcible" side like he did with the healthcare reform, he would be seen as the angry black man again .
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Old 12-05-2010, 10:45 PM
 
Location: Atlanta
3,463 posts, read 4,128,302 times
Reputation: 2167
Well that "healthcare reform" was hardly reform at all. There was no public option on the table to compete with the private healthcare plans, and it doesn't even address the ever escalating rise in costs.

Aside from that, the only part of the media that keeps referring to President as the "angry black man" is really Fox News, Wall Street Journal, Talk Radio, & other lackeys of the wealthy & mega-corporations. If our President would simply stop wussing out at every opportunity & ignore the lizardman news channel, he can get his cajones back & start fighting for the little guy again. All he needs to do is take a page from the history books in which past Progessive fighting leaders faced much more dire circumstances & yet was able to rally their supporters behind some great legislation.

Otherwise he really will become one of the more sorry Presidents in recent history, & may ruin any opportunities for a black man to be taken seriously as a master of real-politik for the foreseeable future.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PKCorey View Post
Too bad, if he showed his "angry, forcible" side like he did with the healthcare reform, he would be seen as the angry black man again .

Last edited by AcidSnake; 12-05-2010 at 10:58 PM..
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Old 12-05-2010, 10:59 PM
 
Location: East Side of ATL
4,150 posts, read 5,762,984 times
Reputation: 1784
Quote:
If our President would simply stop wussing out at every opportunity & ignore the lizardman news channel, he can get his cajones back & start fighting for the little guy again.
I semi agree with you. He (or his handlers) may be too controlled by polls and the bullying of the cable news networks.

I wish, he would act more like Bush/Cheney but then again, they use that against him that he is ignoring the public will so I dont know...
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Old 12-06-2010, 06:31 AM
 
Location: Atlanta
3,463 posts, read 4,128,302 times
Reputation: 2167
All I'm sayin' is that if President Obama can't use this small window of opportunity in the lame-duck session to get on the bully pulpit & encourage the U.S. Senate Democrats to use simple majority/reconciliation rules to pass decent progressive legislation then he is pretty much a loser in my book.

All this "we should support Obama/democrats because he/they are the better of two evils" is getting to be an old excuse. It's like voting for the less evil guy simply because he is forestalling the apocalypse rather than voting for the really evil guy who start the apocalypse in a heartbeat.

Might as well let the apocalypse happen immediately. Maybe it will shake people from their apathy & ignorance of the American government & make them become more active in the voting process.

Quote:
Originally Posted by PKCorey View Post
I semi agree with you. He (or his handlers) may be too controlled by polls and the bullying of the cable news networks.

I wish, he would act more like Bush/Cheney but then again, they use that against him that he is ignoring the public will so I dont know...
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