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Old 12-06-2010, 08:46 AM
 
28,153 posts, read 24,696,070 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AcidSnake View Post
All this "we should support Obama/democrats because he/they are the better of two evils" is getting to be an old excuse. It's like voting for the less evil guy simply because he is forestalling the apocalypse rather than voting for the really evil guy who start the apocalypse in a heartbeat.

Might as well let the apocalypse happen immediately. Maybe it will shake people from their apathy & ignorance of the American government & make them become more active in the voting process.
Several of my progressive friends have said this and I always ask what makes them think they will come out on top in the apocalypse? Seems to me it's more likely they would just get squished even further.
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Old 12-06-2010, 09:26 AM
 
Location: Atlanta
3,463 posts, read 4,119,143 times
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I guess my frustration is that so many people don't realize that the reason our middle class is as strong as it is now is because of these protections set in place during the 1930's depression. The older generations have not done their job to educate the youth on the miseries of yesterday and as a result people have gotten arrogant, complacent, & formed an entitlement mindset.

I deal with this type of stuff at my job every day, with people coming into my place of business expecting their government bennies & yet contradictorily railing on & on about government corruption. At the same time these folks will not even take 5 minutes to go on the government-funded computers & educate themselves on the government-funded internet about how their government works. They won't even vote as well.

In a perverse fashion I almost want the Republicans to win the White House in 2012 & for this country to doggone near go down the drain. If it takes a total collapse of our economic system for people to collectively pull their heads out their fannies so be it. Maybe out of the wreckage a true honest & strong progressive/liberal can come into the U.S. Presidency & clean house.


Quote:
Originally Posted by arjay57 View Post
Several of my progressive friends have said this and I always ask what makes them think they will come out on top in the apocalypse? Seems to me it's more likely they would just get squished even further.
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Old 12-06-2010, 09:56 AM
 
3,129 posts, read 5,148,789 times
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Be careful what you wish for. Anarchy isn't fun.
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Old 12-06-2010, 10:01 AM
 
Location: Atlanta
3,463 posts, read 4,119,143 times
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Our country is heading there anyway, albeit slowly. Might as well hasten the journey.

Quote:
Originally Posted by RandyWatson13 View Post
Be careful what you wish for. Anarchy isn't fun.
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Old 12-07-2010, 09:06 AM
 
1,301 posts, read 1,854,540 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by neil0311 View Post
I agree in practicality it might be tough to know who is honest and in need of a short term helping hand, versus who is just gaming the system. Point taken, but I think in general we need to go back to where this country was 50 to 100 years ago, where you had to work hard or potentially starve. There was no easy way out. Then, you couldn't just pop out illegitimate kids and let the taxpayers support you for years on end. Am I just cruel, heartless, and "greedy" as I'm sure some of you think? I don't think so, especially since I voluntarily give a bunch to charity (a whole bunch). The question is how much should the gov't involuntarily take from taxpayers to redistribute to others, and under what circumstances?

As for "meaningless wars" etc....I won't get into that polictical debate with you, but I will say that defending the country from external enemies is the first and most important function of the federal gov't. We don't have a choice as to whether we should or shouldn't do it. Without security from external threats, all the other talk is just that....meaningless talk.

I agree that we need to stop all kinds of fraud, whether Medicaid or Medicare, overbilling by defense contractors, etc. We have to drain the swamp in DC and cut spending....period....including the DOD. It has to be in areas where efficiencies can be achieved, and I believe many such places exist. It's always strange that spending increases wildly when times are good, but when we talk about going back to where things were before the huge increases, there are always dire predictions and lots of hand wringing.
Very well said Neil.
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Old 12-07-2010, 09:10 AM
 
1,301 posts, read 1,854,540 times
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[quote=gtcorndog;16884120]The only problem with this is that urban schools routinely spend more money than suburban schools. Georgia spends the 25th most per student in the country. The results don't match the expenditures. Hell, Newark spends upwards of $20,000 per student/year and have they seen results? This is not something we can throw money at to fix. A teacher has a kid for 8 hours a day. A parent has them the other 16. No teacher, no matter how good they are can counteract the bullsh*t a kid is taught at home. Parents need to be parents. The burden should not be at taxpayers to throw more money at this problem.

The problem is not at a National level. It was not George Bush's fault. It is not Obama's fault. The Federal Government has no place in the education system. This should be a function of state and local governments. With this said, perhaps the urban areas might want to start voting the other way because the leaders they have been voting for for the past 100 years have done nothign to improve their situations. "George Bush does not care about Black people?" What has your local representative (state or national) done for you other than sell you the same bag of entitlement sh*t and failed helping hand programs?[/quote]

This is one of the best replies in regards to urban education that I have ever read.
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Old 12-07-2010, 09:16 AM
 
1,301 posts, read 1,854,540 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AcidSnake View Post
At this point Arjay, it doesn't really matter anymore. President Obama is weak. He is weak on so many levels it ain't funny anymore.

He hasn't fought for anything of any substance. Now he's gonna cave on taxcuts to the ultra-wealthy. He won't even try for the simple-majority/reconciliation Senate vote, the tool that the last Prez Bush 2 used with incredible excitement. Obama has bended to Corporations at every opportunity and it is sickening.

I dare anyone who calls him/herself a progressive & a liberal to defend this guy, because I truly think that he is nothing as a U.S. President, a shadow that pales in comparison to great leaders like Abraham Lincoln, Franklin D. Roosevelt, & Lyndon B. Johnson, folks who had the intestinal fortitude to fight for liberalism.

More will suffer without jobs or proper heating assistance, as long as this weak liberal-wannabe is in office.
Wow, while I agree with you about Obama even though I take the Conservative approach but ultimately Obama will set the progressive/liberal movement back a generation or more once his one term is complete. NO WAY the American people will put an ultra-lib like him in office anytime soon. The Democrats better hang their hats on moderates from this point forward if they ever want to win a national election again.
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Old 12-07-2010, 09:21 AM
 
906 posts, read 1,442,334 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by suprascooby22 View Post
Wow, while I agree with you about Obama even though I take the Conservative approach but ultimately Obama will set the progressive/liberal movement back a generation or more once his one term is complete. NO WAY the American people will put an ultra-lib like him in office anytime soon. The Democrats better hang their hats on moderates from this point forward if they ever want to win a national election again.
Particularly considering Obama's complete sell-out of his campaign promises to the wealthy/Republicans--i.e., giving into tax cuts for millionaires and now even a cut in the estate tax--I can't for the life of me understand how people like you can maintain that this guy is an "ultra-lib." How out of touch can one be?

Ultraliberals would never, ever make such a deal. Nor would they put together a health care package that wasn't single payer or at least had a public option involved.

I feel like there's an Obama caricature that conservatives keep imagining--you know, the one who's a communist Muslim from another planet--that has little to do with the real one, who's been utterly aggravating to actual liberals.
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Old 12-08-2010, 04:07 PM
 
Location: Atlanta
3,463 posts, read 4,119,143 times
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If you actually think that for the last 2 years Obama has been governing like an ultra-liberal, that Limbaugh/Fox News cocaine you've been snorting up must be stronger & more intoxicating than I thought. He hasn't pulled out of Iraq, he hasn't pushed for the public option in the healthcare reform, & he is hell-bent on continuing the tax-cuts to the top 1% to detriment of our country's immense public deficit. Everything so far has been more revamped Clintonian Triangulation/giveaways to the corporations.

What sort of "ultra-liberalism" are you seeing in this stuff?


Quote:
Originally Posted by suprascooby22 View Post
Wow, while I agree with you about Obama even though I take the Conservative approach but ultimately Obama will set the progressive/liberal movement back a generation or more once his one term is complete. NO WAY the American people will put an ultra-lib like him in office anytime soon. The Democrats better hang their hats on moderates from this point forward if they ever want to win a national election again.

Last edited by AcidSnake; 12-08-2010 at 04:20 PM..
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Old 12-08-2010, 08:58 PM
 
60 posts, read 121,469 times
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Aaahhh... let me count the ways.

1) Health care for everyone
2) Spending our way out of recessions
3) Record levels of handouts (corporate and individual)
4) Cash for Clunkers
5) Winding down operations in Iraq
6) Trying to dictate foreign policy to the Israelis
7) Bowing down deep to King Abdullah
8) Record deficits, our current annual deficit now is larger than the USA's entire budget in 1988.
9) Massive stimulus spending for public projects.
10) Compromising whenever there is the least bit of resistance by extreme Republicans so that 'both sides' can be happy.

None of this would have ever been the status quo under Bill Clinton. All of you so-called progressives ought to be ashamed of yourselves for promoting this 'community organizer' to lead our country.

Damnit! It's 2010 and the majority of Americans still miss Bill Clinton. A Democrat with balls... and quite possibly the only leader of the Democratic party who still has them.
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