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Old 01-06-2011, 03:02 PM
 
7,113 posts, read 8,152,187 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arjay57 View Post
I understand the arguments about this being a racial issue, but honestly I'm not so sure. North Fulton is not some exclusive enclave -- plenty of people of all races live there. The schools are mixed, as are income levels and just about everything else.

By the way, as I understand it, the new Milton County will extend south to the Atlanta city limit, along the border with Buckhead. Is that right? And did somebody say it would now include Dunwoody? How would that work?
Sandy Springs wants to be a part of Milton too. I guess if Dunwoody joined, that would cut a piece out of Dekalb? That seems less likely. But if Buckhead somehow became a city and joined Milton as well, wow, that would be one helluva affluent Milton County!
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Old 01-06-2011, 03:32 PM
 
28,251 posts, read 24,859,769 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MathmanMathman View Post
But if Buckhead somehow became a city and joined Milton as well, wow, that would be one helluva affluent Milton County!
Heh, it sure would be. It's hard to imagine that happening though.
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Old 01-06-2011, 04:16 PM
 
Location: Beautiful Buckhead
128 posts, read 160,412 times
Reputation: 96
Quote:
Originally Posted by MathmanMathman View Post

But personally, I'd break up Fulton County completely and incorporate it into the surrounding counties.

Ya know, I kinda gotta agree. In light of everything has been posted on here so far, this really is not such a bad idea. Let Milton be Milton if it wants, give S fulton over to douglass, Coweta, or Fayette, incorporate Atlanta and Dekalb Atl as its own county, kinda like how D.C. is setup. And ya know, maybe we can even cede Atlanta over to the federal government as a federal territory....since we all agree Atl is a uber-liberal socialistic blight on our "fail conservative christian Georgia".....lol

Oh man....I needed a good laugh today.
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Old 01-06-2011, 05:27 PM
 
Location: Atlanta
3,472 posts, read 4,132,778 times
Reputation: 2177
I would hardly credit any of the regular citizens in North Fulton County for making it so successful. It was more due to the many successful businesses & Corporations that are situated up there, & that's mostly due to the tax dollars from the state that followed the white flight to that area. Taxes that paid for the infrastructure such as roads & sewers which lured those very businesses there in the first place.

South Fulton had suffered from underinvestment for many years because of this phenomenon. Same can be said for South DeKalb and the Perimeter CID that the City of Dunwoody is now blessed to have in its territory. That to me is the crux of this whole argument, which is that black politicians have been undermined from the moment they were able to be elected to public office in Metropolitan Atlanta.

We were not allowed to grow as a group and make mistakes and enjoy successes in the same way that white politicians were able to. We barely had 30 to 40 years at the helm to make an impact, and now once again we are undermined.

An article written by Georgia State University Professor Tim Crimmins essentially sums up a good portion of the complaint by us anti-Milton County crowd.

The Rise of Milton County – GSU Magazine

Quote:
Originally Posted by arjay57 View Post
This wouldn't be happening if Fulton County had simply taken care of business over the years. Residents on the north end have been trying to get more equitable treatment for decades, and it's the refusal of Fulton County to deal with them that finally provoked the Milton County movement.

The folks I know up that way realize their area is prosperous and historically they've been willing to put in more than they got back for the good of the county as a whole. They know that helping the region helps them so they weren't looking for a dollar-for-dollar return. However, you can't let things stay too lopsided for too long. And for them it's about a lot more than money, of course. The county needs to be responsive to all residents in planning, transportation, healthcare, schools, libraries, courts, public safety and a slew of other services.

Bear in mind that there have been plenty of people trying to get Fulton to mend its ways. Guys like Ed Lindsey (House majority whip) and other powers that be in the city have worked hard to keep Fulton County intact. But this has been going on a long time and you have to wonder if there's too much water over the dam at this point.

Last edited by AcidSnake; 01-06-2011 at 06:31 PM..
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Old 01-06-2011, 05:37 PM
 
Location: Atlanta and St Simons Island, GA
21,204 posts, read 33,194,819 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AlGreen View Post
...my question is, is there really a way they can do this without hurting the residents of south fulton? sounds kind of selfish to me
I love statements like this that imply that any resistance to an out-of-control local government that wants to punish the earners is racist and reactionary. We need Economics 101 in our high schools. We are on
the Road to Hell otherwise, Demagogues.
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Old 01-06-2011, 05:43 PM
 
Location: Atlanta
3,472 posts, read 4,132,778 times
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Oh please. I highly doubt that many of the earners who have the successful corporations in North Fulton are the ones agitating for Milton County's secession. They are too busy making money.

It's more like your everyday "Joe the Plumber" types & their enablers at the State house who can't stand to see people different from themselves share in the power & benefits of taxes. It's always been this way.

Deny it if you want, but me and many others like myself who have lived in the south for forever & a day, know better.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LovinDecatur View Post
I love statements like this that imply that any resistance to an out-of-control local government that wants to punish the earners is racist and reactionary. We need Economics 101 in our high schools. We are on
the Road to Hell otherwise, Demagogues.

Last edited by AcidSnake; 01-06-2011 at 06:42 PM..
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Old 01-06-2011, 08:24 PM
 
28,251 posts, read 24,859,769 times
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Snake, you darn Marxist. Exactly when did wealthy suburbanites surrender the right to have exclusive self-governing enclaves?

And in case you haven't been on the south side lately, folks aren't exactly hurting for money down there these days.

How long do you figure this wealth transfer is supposed to go on?


Quote:
Originally Posted by AcidSnake View Post
I would hardly credit any of the regular citizens in North Fulton County for making it so successful. It was more due to the many successful businesses & Corporations that are situated up there, & that's mostly due to the tax dollars from the state that followed the white flight to that area. Taxes that paid for the infrastructure such as roads & sewers which lured those very businesses there in the first place.

South Fulton had suffered from underinvestment for many years because of this phenomenon. Same can be said for South DeKalb and the Perimeter CID that the City of Dunwoody is now blessed to have in its territory. That to me is the crux of this whole argument, which is that black politicians have been undermined from the moment they were able to be elected to public office in Metropolitan Atlanta.

We were not allowed to grow as a group and make mistakes and enjoy successes in the same way that white politicians were able to. We barely had 30 to 40 years at the helm to make an impact, and now once again we are undermined.

An article written by Georgia State University Professor Tim Crimmins essentially sums up a good portion of the complaint by us anti-Milton County crowd.

The Rise of Milton County – GSU Magazine
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Old 01-06-2011, 09:27 PM
 
Location: Atlanta
3,472 posts, read 4,132,778 times
Reputation: 2177
Quote:
Originally Posted by arjay57 View Post
Snake, you darn Marxist. Exactly when did wealthy suburbanites surrender the right to have exclusive self-governing enclaves?
Interesting that you would put this situation in such stark terms.

I wasn't aware that the wealth suburbanites had given up those rights. They were able to utilize the HOPE scholarship, something that was originally meant for the poor, they were able to hamper MARTA's development at every opportunity, they were able to disempower the DeKalb CEO, they were able to reduce state income & corporate taxes to themselves while increasing sales taxes(which regressively harms the poor), and they were able to create their own cities.

Seems like the wealthy suburbanites always get the upper hand in everything. Any victories that people like me had gotten were usually at the federal level, and the state had to grudgingly oblige...with heavy emphasis on grudgingly...

Quote:
Originally Posted by arjay57 View Post
And in case you haven't been on the south side lately, folks aren't exactly hurting for money down there these days.

How long do you figure this wealth transfer is supposed to go on?
Wealth transfer? Wooooooow... Are you seriously saying that? You are becoming less and less moderate by the day, arjay. Like you're delving into wingnut territory here.
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Old 01-06-2011, 09:43 PM
 
Location: Atlanta
6,460 posts, read 7,312,450 times
Reputation: 4206
There are alot of arguments here people need to be a little more careful with.

I don't think North Fulton was given lots of resources at the cost of South Fulton's growth being left behind.

I think the state of Georgia has been good at throwing money to roads in the past wherever there was growth, regardless of the distance people were commuting or the zoning patterns local governments created.

Georgia and in this case, Fulton County as a whole create infrastructure in North Fulton not so much that they chose it over South Fulton, but more so because people chose to move there and build there.

With that said.... We have always subsidized growing areas and people who choose to commute longer distances across the whole region.

At one point in time that happened in Dekalb, in another Cobb and Clayton, and in another Gwinnett, Fayette, and N. Fulton. Now it is starting to happen in Forsyth, Hall, and Cherokee Counties.

What I find interesting in this situation is Milton has only been choosing to separate from Fulton after North Fulton has developed most of its land and created it's county and state road infrastructure.

As far as existing conditions today.... the idea that North Fulton is still subsidizing South Fulton is increasingly growing weaker.

Fulton does not provide much in the way in services to City of Atlanta as the city provides most services. South Fulton isn't nearly as populated, but they do have a a population with noticeably lower incomes, so they pay less in property taxes. However, in recent years the tax code has been revamped. South Fulton is paying a higher millage rate to make up for difference in land values per capita. North Fulton residents are now paying much less in county taxes. At this point in time anyone in North Fulton complaining about high property taxes have to realize their high taxes are now caused by paying local city taxes that can't offer municipal services as cheap as a larger county could.

Basically they opted to spend the same amount of money on less efficient government rather than face the inkling of an idea that a few millage points of their property tax...may arguably be subsidizing a few in South Fulton. I just find it interesting we live in a world where more people would rather pay the similar taxes and deal with inefficiency rather than pay similar taxes that might help people that are worse off and provide them the same level of services.

I know some people are going to argue that, but that is what it is. I just find it to be real telling.

I'll let everyone else argue their own spin on it though.
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Old 01-06-2011, 11:19 PM
 
12,983 posts, read 21,117,726 times
Reputation: 4122
Quote:
Originally Posted by AcidSnake View Post
Interesting that you would put this situation in such stark terms.

I wasn't aware that the wealth suburbanites had given up those rights. They were able to utilize the HOPE scholarship, something that was originally meant for the poor, they were able to hamper MARTA's development at every opportunity, they were able to disempower the DeKalb CEO, they were able to reduce state income & corporate taxes to themselves while increasing sales taxes(which regressively harms the poor), and they were able to create their own cities.

Seems like the wealthy suburbanites always get the upper hand in everything. Any victories that people like me had gotten were usually at the federal level, and the state had to grudgingly oblige...with heavy emphasis on grudgingly...



Wealth transfer? Wooooooow... Are you seriously saying that? You are becoming less and less moderate by the day, arjay. Like you're delving into wingnut territory here.

Well said. Good response.
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