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Old 01-04-2011, 07:29 PM
 
7,112 posts, read 10,081,749 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by K-SawDude View Post
I'd quibble a bit with you regarding what constitutes "real" research or not. Also keep in mind that plenty of research is conducted with minimal or no financial support from private or public grants--particularly that in the humanities. In addition to dollar amounts, you also have to look at research output by professors (publications, conferences, etc.)

In any case, I certainly agree that Emory, Georgia Tech, and UGA are the top tier in research institutions, with GSU coming up the ranks behind them, and KSU one level down from that. From what I've read and observed, both KSU and GSU are aiming to increase research output over the next decade.

You make a fair point about concentrating funds at a few schools that are focused on research. But it's also a smart idea to strategically boost support for research at up-and-coming schools as well.

Here's some more stats on KSU and other Atlanta-area universities for those interested: KSU aims for premier status *| ajc.com
The real research is the stuff that brings in the dollars. When awarded, the university usually takes about half of it. That's why there is a strong push to win funding grants and contracts. Research on the influences by Chaucer on Shakespeare is nice but that's not going to make an impact on Georgia's economy. Really, the general measure of research quality of an institution is the money they bring in.

Support for research involves money for research facilities and even researchers themselves. Tech and Emory are at the premier level with UGA a bit further behind in terms of big bucks research. The Medical College does well considering its size and medical research brings in a lot of money. That's a big reason why UGA wants Engineering and a Med school.

Ga. State is well behind although they are attempting to ramp up their research efforts. I'd say KSU is a few tiers behind in terms of research as Georgia State has a lot PhD programs already. Schools in the university system have missions that are a mixture of research and teaching. Tech and UGA have a strong research mission. GaSou, UWG, and KSU focus more on teaching with some research. And GPC and others are just teaching.

Maybe GaSou will be elevated to a research university for the sake of south Georgia but Atlanta already has Emory, Tech, Ga. State, and arguably UGA. I think KSU should be relegated to teaching and limited research. For KSU to be a truly premier institution, it has to have world class faculty with world class facilities and that requires a lot of money.
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Old 01-05-2011, 12:40 AM
 
Location: Atlanta
7,574 posts, read 10,684,729 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MathmanMathman View Post
The real research is the stuff that brings in the dollars. When awarded, the university usually takes about half of it. That's why there is a strong push to win funding grants and contracts. Research on the influences by Chaucer on Shakespeare is nice but that's not going to make an impact on Georgia's economy. Really, the general measure of research quality of an institution is the money they bring in.

Support for research involves money for research facilities and even researchers themselves. Tech and Emory are at the premier level with UGA a bit further behind in terms of big bucks research. The Medical College does well considering its size and medical research brings in a lot of money. That's a big reason why UGA wants Engineering and a Med school.

Ga. State is well behind although they are attempting to ramp up their research efforts. I'd say KSU is a few tiers behind in terms of research as Georgia State has a lot PhD programs already. Schools in the university system have missions that are a mixture of research and teaching. Tech and UGA have a strong research mission. GaSou, UWG, and KSU focus more on teaching with some research. And GPC and others are just teaching.

Maybe GaSou will be elevated to a research university for the sake of south Georgia but Atlanta already has Emory, Tech, Ga. State, and arguably UGA. I think KSU should be relegated to teaching and limited research. For KSU to be a truly premier institution, it has to have world class faculty with world class facilities and that requires a lot of money.
You're partly correct, but I'll be honest when I started my previous statement I was afraid this type of argument would end up coming out.

I don't think it is fair to underplay UGA and GSU in this way. There is real research in academic fields that just aren't as marketable on the private market at bringing in money. Someone already mentioned the humanities for example. However, for example... there are high amount of media and PR companies located in the Atlanta area. The Grady College at UGA is easily one of the top 5 programs of its type for those fields and produces great quality workers (quick fyi... U of F is also really good in this field and many graduates from there move up). Now the research in these areas do not contribute much financially to the school, but it is top-notch and employers do notice. On GSU's side they have an excellent public affairs/policy department. That produces great material, but it is often hard to market economic/public policy research for $.

The reason GT and Emory are so far ahead of UGA in the financially is the high degree you can patent and market engineering and medical research. Don't get me wrong excellent and very successful schools. We are lucky to have them.

To KSU's benefit they are trying, but they are still new and have a looooong way to go. I know in the communications literature you do sometimes see a journal publication or two from KSU in a 2nd or third tier journal and every so often in a first tier journal. However, they don't have the financial resources and the physical infrastructure to attract high-producing faculty. Just look at an aerial photo of their campus compared to UGA, GSU, and GT. There isn't near as much much built per student as the other schools. I do feel it is a top notch regional university though. I don't think most undergraduate students lose anything by going there and they attract a pretty good student pool, but they have about 50-100 years of hard work to go to grow into a true research university and even then I don't think the state will give them enough financial support to truly grow that much.
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Old 01-05-2011, 07:00 AM
 
906 posts, read 1,739,171 times
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On the flip side, lots of people argue that universities shouldn't all just be about research--and shouldn't necessarily be ranked only by metrics such as research grants in dollars. At big research institutions, a lot of undergrads don't always feel like they're getting great instruction, particularly when faculty are so focused on research/publication while teaching is pawned off on TAs on the cheap.

Long term, I think KSU isn't aiming for a UGA-level focus on research but rather one tier down from that--sort of a blend of teaching and research excellence. They're adding new PhD programs each year now. And they'd be adding even more if Georgia State weren't blocking them (for fear of diluting their own programs).

But yes, it's great that we've got so many types of schools around here, including community college and excellent liberal arts schools like Olgethorpe and Agnes Scott. And, back to the thread topic at hand, we'd be wise to integrate many of the larger schools into our rail network.
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Old 01-05-2011, 07:02 AM
 
906 posts, read 1,739,171 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by buzzn View Post
Here's my idea. Overview: I am thinking of this line as a way to connect Cumberland with downtown, South Dekalb mall with downtown, and finally provide a station at Turner Field. Other stops would be Atlantic Station, Georgia Tech, AUC, and Zoo Atlanta. Those are the immediate destinations. From a 50 year perspective, this would also open up the west side of downtown for denser development.

Route: Start at Cumberland Mall following the railroad track ROW through Vinings, across the Chattahoochee River, all the way down to Chattahoochee Avenue. At the Water Works, move from the railroad ROW to an elevated structural steel railway down Northside Drive (think the L in Chicago) starting at the old railroad bridge on Northside Drive near Atlantic Station. Continue as a structural steel elevated railway down Northside Drive down to the Dome, connecting with the Blue and Green lines at Vine City.

Then begin turning East, connecting with the Red and Yellow lines at a new station near Castleberry Hill. Cross over I-20 and I-75 and pick back up as a structural steel elevated railway as you approach Turner Field and pick up Ralph David Abernathy. Follow RDA / Georgia Ave. as an elevated structural steel railway all the way to the Zoo / Grant Park where you enter a tunnel underneath Ormewood Park and East Atlanta. Emerge at I-20 east following the ROW to South Dekalb Mall.

Map:
Great idea! Though I wonder if the Westside portion might be too close to the proposed Beltline routes on the Westside?

But connecting Vinings to Atlantic Station to Georgia Tech to the rest of MARTA is smart. Or Smarta?
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Old 01-05-2011, 09:20 AM
 
88 posts, read 182,725 times
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As cities & counties start filing for bankruptcy, dollars crashes & food sources become more scarce,... there won't be ANY funding for rail in 2011. Mark my words!
Cities need to start focusing on safe shelters, food & water stockpiles & generators.
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Old 01-05-2011, 09:21 AM
 
2 posts, read 5,861 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by K-SawDude View Post
Great idea! Though I wonder if the Westside portion might be too close to the proposed Beltline routes on the Westside?

But connecting Vinings to Atlantic Station to Georgia Tech to the rest of MARTA is smart. Or Smarta?
The Beltline is about 1 mile further west on average. The closest the Beltline would be if they choose the more eastern option would be about 3/4 mile, well outside the maximum 1/4 mile radius for walking to stations.

And the existing Red and Yellow lines are about 1 mile to the east on the northern portion of Northside Drive and about 3/4 mile to the east on the portion below North Avenue. This route would split the difference between the two lines.

I hadn't thought of connections with the Beltline, so on the top part of the Beltline, if the Beltline takes the southern option (i.e. just north of Atlantic Station) you could put a station there. If it takes the northern option, I would put the "Chatahoochee Avenue" station at the nexus.

I would put the "Ormewood Park" station at the nexus of the Beltline and this route, probably at Berne St.

I would love to see the first step be the portion of the line from Atlantic Station to the Zoo.

Dang, maybe I should pull a Ryan Gravel and propose a master's thesis around this design!
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Old 01-05-2011, 04:56 PM
 
Location: Atlanta
7,574 posts, read 10,684,729 times
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Thanks Buzzn for actually taking the time to put some thought into this and making a map to look at and discuss, which many haven't been able to do.

I have spent some time pondering this, looking through the aerial imaging, considering growth potential, etc...

Your map is definitely trying to address a few problems with developing to the west of Midtown, which I like, but ultimately I think it could be done more cost efficiently in other ways. Please don't these points as personal criticism as much as ideas for consideration given that I think you otherwise put in a very good effort making this idea.

The issues this line would need to overcome

1) running along existing rail ROW is often a way of cutting costs in implementing transit, however in the northwest corridor there would have to be alot of extensive bridging over large rail yards, bridge reconstruction, and land acquisition to make this work. This has mainly to do with the fact that most freight moves Northwest of Atlanta and the largest rail yards in the area for NS ans CSX are to the northwest. The light rail that has been talked about has considered running along Marietta Blvd/St/Howell Mill for these reasons

2) There is a cost issue in constructing the rest of it as well. The rest of it would have to be a bridge or a tunnel along the whole route and this would prove to be really expensive. I also suspect the steel bridging wouldn't happen for a few reasons. First, it would mostly likely be concrete. Steel is not as cheap as it was when cities like NY and Chicago first implemented their elevated rail lines. They used the cheap material of the day... our cheap material for the day would be a dense form of concrete. Second, I fear there would be alot of neighborhood opposition. Most see elevated rail over the street as dirty, loud, and something that harms property values as much as it helps it.

3) There isn't much development potential in the core area to the west of town. Well, there is some, but your alignment isn't making the full potential of it. The problem with providing rail service to, especially through/bordering GA Tech, is there is no development potential there. There is also no potential at raising land values and getting back some an increase in property tax revenue to help pay for transportation investments locally. The alignments south of GA Tech is a more narrow sliver. The Beltline is to the west, but you also have Vine City station and the GA Dome station already providing coverage to part of the alignment and there are rail road tracks not to far to the east bisecting the neighborhoods in many ways. I would also like to note that many of the uncovered areas would be covered by the proposed city streetcar system, which would be fair cheaper/easier to implement.

(FYI: I like the idea of an infill MARTA station at the NS line south of Castleberry Hill probably at McDaniel Rd. It would be easy/cheap to build, there is new more TOD development there, development potential, and it opens up access to the Mechanicsville neighborhood and would probably make bus lines in the area more effective.)

4) The southern portion... South of I-20, but inside the beltline. I do see a need here, but again it is a costly alignment too. I have kinda always wanted to see a small spur from the East/west Line come down Capital Ave to provide service to the braves game and possible redevelop parts of parking lots there. There is also less disruption of existing residential areas. Also, a general note as I make these criticism. It would be nice to have HRT/LRT service within every 1/4, 1/2, 1 mile walkable radius, however I can't help but to notice that after we get the belt line built we can also refocus better bus routes to cover these areas. I'm just trying to weigh the costs of putting money into one place rather than another. It is hard for me to put money into much of this area when much of it has lower redevelopment potential, for a major city the area has relatively low population density (But are established neighborhoods that won't redevelop much), and the beltline is coming in not too far away and would be cheaper and provide a bigger impact.

5) The far eastern alignment is actually covered under MARTA's expansion plans and actually goes further out of town as well. I have no complaints here, but they will follow cheaper/faster alignment to get to downtown. No complaints here.

Ultimately we will go to the NW part of town, I just think the options that have been given more serious consideration are making use of the I-75 corridor or Marietta Blvd and possible following a few streams in a couple of places.

The thoughts I do like is providing service to the Atlantic station, Homepark/Northside drive/Howell Mill area. I think if we had the money to put into a project like this we might want to consider doing a line east-west from midtown station and tunnel a relatively short distance near 14th street and possible bridge over I-85. Probably a traffic separated LRT line. On the eastern alignment it could operate at ground level along side piedmont park to connect the beltline into midtown and on the western side it could offer a traffic separated LRT connection for the NW line into town rather than turning into a street car. Most of the alignment has room to redevelop and become denser. GT isn't too far away and it would be a boom for boosting mass transit circulation in midtown and hitting colony square.

One note about Atlantic Station. There is an old rail bridge over I-75 that exists just north of AS. It would be really cheap to build a one station extension to connect it to the existing North/South line. Part of it could probably even be a single track given that it is so short and is going to one station. Once the train hits the N/S tracks, which aren't far away it could be routed to Linbergh further north or reverse direction and continue over the existing bridge over I-85 and go south to Arts Center and to five points. You could even develop a second infill station at the existing Amtrak station and provide access to the area developing along Peachtree Street south of Piedmont hospital. All of that could be done with a relatively cheap 1 mile extension and partly on a single track to further cut costs, but still provide a big impact. I think part of the reason this never happened or was talked about much is that there was not much willingness from the Beltline developer to use much money from the AS TAD to invest into the transit option, but they left the unused railroad bridge over I-75 as an option for the future.
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Old 01-05-2011, 05:37 PM
 
83 posts, read 112,696 times
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I might be wrong, but wasn't Atlantic Station built with adding transit in the future as part of the design. I think there is space set up to be used as a transit station in the depths of that parking deck somewhere that would hook up if transit was expanded in that direction
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Old 01-05-2011, 05:51 PM
 
16,626 posts, read 29,278,105 times
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I have posted this on the Atlanta Forum before, but it was a while back. Those of you participating in this thread should take a close look (if you don't know about this already):


http://www.cfpt.org/documents/worldclass_map.pdf


Enjoy...and Feel Free to Comment and Think of Even More Ideas!
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Old 01-05-2011, 05:53 PM
 
16,626 posts, read 29,278,105 times
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Those interested in Commuter Rail should take a look at this:

Track Twenty-Nine: Envisioning a New Rail Hub for Atlanta: Part III




And this:

http://www.city-data.com/forum/15838250-post8.html
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