Design Your Own MARTA Expansion (Atlanta, Macon: mover, bankruptcy, quality of life)
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I personally think a U-Shaped light rail line from Kennesaw University to Cumberland across the perimeter to Norcross to Gwinnett Place/Duluth would really help. For commuter rail, the line to Athens would be a big economic boost. For commuters going Midtown/Downtown from Cobb, a commuter rail line from Rome to Downtown (with a few stops in Cobb and one in Cumberland) would be cheaper than light rail and heavy rail from Cobb to Midtown/Downtown. A third commuter rail line south to Macon would also be a good option. So... with this plan, both Cobb and Gwinnett get light rail and commuter rail.
I would love to see an expanded MARTA, but the higher cost of heavy rail and the negative perceptions (which are mostly wrong) of MARTA will prevent it from being expanded much more. Although I love the map the OP did, the places that make the most sense for the money for MARTA to expand are north to Roswell, North Point Mall, and Alpharetta and northeast to Norcross. The bridge over 285 is already there to expand to Norcross so it would be easy and less expensive and it makes no sense to build a short light rail line from North Springs to Alpharetta... so if they want rail transit they should just suck it up and expand MARTA up there. I think it would be worth it.
I personally think a U-Shaped light rail line from Kennesaw University to Cumberland across the perimeter to Norcross to Gwinnett Place/Duluth would really help. For commuter rail, the line to Athens would be a big economic boost. For commuters going Midtown/Downtown from Cobb, a commuter rail line from Rome to Downtown (with a few stops in Cobb and one in Cumberland) would be cheaper than light rail and heavy rail from Cobb to Midtown/Downtown. A third commuter rail line south to Macon would also be a good option.
I would love to see an expanded MARTA, but the higher cost of heavy rail and the negative perceptions (which are mostly wrong) of MARTA will prevent it from being expanded much more. Although I love the map the OP did, the places that make the most sense for the money for MARTA to expand are north to Roswell, North Point Mall, and Alpharetta and northeast to Norcross. The bridge over 285 is already there to expand to Norcross so it would be easy and less expensive and it makes no sense to build a short light rail line from North Springs to Alpharetta... so if they want rail transit they should just expand MARTA up there.
Just food for thought...
This use to be my general opinion. LRT is really good for short/medium distance travel, being a circulator, and developing density. However, when I look at timetables in other cities LRT takes ways to long to travel 10 or 15 miles.
My fear is the expansioin pitches by all of these CIDs (Cumberland, Perimeter, Gwinnett Village, and Gwinnett Place) for LRT is perfect for them fostering local development and land values (which are good components of a good transit system), but I am not sure how effective it will be at moving lots of people between Cobb, Perimeter, and Gwinnett (more regionally).
That is why I amended Testa's map the way I did. I don't suspect that will ever actually happen or is even the best option, but I am just hoping to get people to think about two things: 1) Speed 2) Making sure expansions make full use of the resources we already have, while acknowledging Metro Atlanta isn't completely Atlanta City-centric as it use to be.
I think LRT is a good technology for Emory/CDC, since it really just need to travel a relatively short distance to connection to the North and East lines. Same for the beltline... Where it is mainly used as a circulator over short distances and a high number of stations/mile for denser residential and mixed used development potential.
This use to be my general opinion. LRT is really good for short/medium distance travel, being a circulator, and developing density. However, when I look at timetables in other cities LRT takes ways to long to travel 10 or 15 miles.
My fear is the expansioin pitches by all of these CIDs (Cumberland, Perimeter, Gwinnett Village, and Gwinnett Place) for LRT is perfect for them fostering local development and land values (which are good components of a good transit system), but I am not sure how effective it will be at moving lots of people between Cobb, Perimeter, and Gwinnett (more regionally).
That is why I amended Testa's map the way I did. I don't suspect that will ever actually happen or is even the best option, but I am just hoping to get people to think about two things: 1) Speed 2) Making sure expansions make full use of the resources we already have, while acknowledging Metro Atlanta isn't completely Atlanta City-centric as it use to be.
I think LRT is a good technology for Emory/CDC, since it really just need to travel a relatively short distance to connection to the North and East lines. Same for the beltline... Where it is mainly used as a circulator over short distances and a high number of stations/mile for denser residential and mixed used development potential.
I do see what you are saying, but you can build a LRT line to act more like heavy rail. You can have 3 or 4 car train sets (fit more people) and limit the number of stations. LRT can go fast as long as there aren't too many stations. With limited stations where they make sense, I'm assuming it might take 35-40 minutes on LRT to go from Gwinnett to Cumberland, and maybe 45 minutes - 1 hour from Gwinnett into Cobb County. I doubt most people will go the full length, but even if they do, it is faster than driving. That trip could easily take over an hour driving in rush hour and longer on a bad day. I don't know, maybe I am wrong on the trip times, but as long as it is faster than driving in rush hour, people will use it. There are other benefits to transit... it's cheaper than a car, you can relax, read, do work, you don't have to sit in lots of traffic, etc.
I do see what you are saying, but you can build a LRT line to act more like heavy rail. You can have 3 or 4 car train sets (fit more people) and limit the number of stations. LRT can go fast as long as there aren't too many stations. With limited stations where they make sense, I'm assuming it might take 35 minutes on LRT to go from Gwinnett to Cumberland, and maybe 45 minutes from Gwinnett into Cobb County. I doubt most people will go the full length, but even if they do, it is faster than driving. That trip could easily take over an hour driving in rush hour and longer on a bad day.
Yea... I completely understand that sentiment....I haven't seen a LRT achieve quite the same speed in practice though.
I have two major concerns... They built DART in Dallas like that. Ridership further out of town has been much lower than HRT in Atlanta and other cities. Even, though they built it to be quicker... it is still considerably slower on the travel timetables to the extent people choose to drive instead of ride. Also, the CIDs in Atlanta are proposing more stations than fewer to achieve higher ridership totals in transit comparison studies. The Gwinnett portion running from Doraville to the Gwinnett Arena was going to take about 30-40 minutes just on that NE segment when driving in traffic down that portion of I-85 can usually be done in less than half the time.
Regardless of the technology... I would like to see more stations with 4-tracks that allow for faster region-region trains to pass local trains if we build the system out more.
Yea... I completely understand that sentiment....I haven't seen a LRT achieve quite the same speed in practice though.
I have two major concerns... They built DART in Dallas like that. Ridership further out of town has been much lower than HRT in Atlanta and other cities. Even, though they built it to be quicker... it is still considerably slower on the travel timetables to the extent people choose to drive instead of ride. Also, the CIDs in Atlanta are proposing more stations than fewer to achieve higher ridership totals in transit comparison studies. The Gwinnett portion running from Doraville to the Gwinnett Arena was going to take about 30-40 minutes just on that NE segment when driving in traffic down that portion of I-85 can usually be done in less than half the time.
Regardless of the technology... I would like to see more stations with 4-tracks that allow for faster region-region trains to pass local trains if we build the system out more.
Hmm, yeah I get what you are saying. Ideally, MARTA should be expanded northeast into Gwinnett and even up into Cobb County with a light rail line along the perimeter connecting all 3 lines and providing east-west travel... but knowing how people are here, the cost and the perceptions of MARTA will most likely prevent it from being expanded into Cobb and Gwinnett unfortunately.
LMAO.. so now youre backtracking yourself. The Marta transfer killed a whole mall in LESS than a year? Man just sit down you're making yourself look terribly ridiculous.
Put down the rock pipe. 2003 = early 2000s. There's no backtracking. By your own admission, Cumberland was on the verge of collapse by '03. The station opened in 1999. Four years is about right for the full of effects of the bus station crowd to be felt.
Parking is probably the cheapest part of any transit option to build unless the land value is extremely high in places like downtown or midtown.
True.
More so, I was saying with the CSX (I think, thats who own the rail over here), its just one track going through Conyers so I'm not sure how they would be able to do a spur near the P&R. Downtown Conyers has an old station and a slight spur off the line in downtown but nowhere to park.
This is an outdated assumption. I'm Conservative and I also support transit expansion in certain areas and for certain uses.
I don't think it's outdated at all. I can understand being a conservative at the national level, but why people aren't more socialist at the local level, I'll never understand.
Does anyone know what happened with this? Sen. Curt Thompson (from Norcross) proposed a MARTA rail expansion bill and the article is somewhat recent (March 2010).
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