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Old 01-08-2011, 04:34 PM
479 posts, read 557,854 times
Reputation: 204


Originally Posted by cityrover View Post
You have some data to back that up? Because i am quite sure that the correlation between crime and outright murder is against you..

Check it out.. Drunks are just as likely to try to kill you as is somebody with 500lbs of heroin in the trunk.

You cannot paint some sort of a precrime picture and label people. That's actually been tried before and is highly contested in the field of experimental psychology (that there pretty much sums it up).
Check what out? A drunk accountant is just as likely to kill you as a big heroin dealer? What an utterly absurd statement. The drunk accountant goes to jail for three days. The heroin dealer spends the rest of his life in the pen. Who has more motivation? Who is engaging in a life of crime? Next you will tell me that a speeder is just as likely to rape somebody as a convicted rapist.

Labels are done all the time by everyone. "That guy is a football player. She is a hot actress. He is a successful writer. She is an avid workout person...blah blah blah" Labels are part of everyday life. It all comes down to one's choices in life. There are consequences for your actions. The earlier one gets that the better chance they have of having a good life.

Originally Posted by cityrover View Post
re 2: Background checks for non sensitive positions are really ran for only one reason: dissuade people with record from applying and for giving the employer just another reason to put you on probation/no benefits/no contract or just not hire you while not getting hit with an affirmative action suit. See it's ok to not hire the black dude if he had a drug conviction 28 years ago. This is also another topic in itself.
What position isnt sensitive? Every job has important responsibilites -- otherwise it wouldnt exist as a job.

If a black OR white dude has a criminal past it matters to the employer. For one, if the criminal repeats their crime while under their employee, and the victim finds out they werent pre-screened, the company can expect a MAJOR lawsuit.

Its simple. Dont do drugs. If you dont do them you have nothing to worry about. If you choose to do them that is on you, and on no one else.

I really wish folks would stop blaming the rest of society for their problems and mistakes. Its really time for people to man up and accept the consequences for their actions. If someone chooses to give a convict a second or third or fourth chance, that is their call. But it sure as hell aint the law that anyone HAS to do so.
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Old 01-08-2011, 06:12 PM
27,573 posts, read 23,741,602 times
Reputation: 9242
Originally Posted by cityrover View Post
we call the jury back and " out of curiosity" ask them "sooooo how did you vote.. not that it matters but the prosecutor is wondering"

the answer 80% of the time?

not guilty.
Yep. It's a very bad thing to get caught in a criminal prosecution. Say I am accused of armed robbery but am in fact completely innocent. However, because I look kinda sorta like the person who did it, an eyewitness puts the finger on me. The victim says he only got a fleeting glance but the perpetrator was about my size.

Eyewitness testimony is notoriously incorrect, and my public defender makes a big fuss about that with the DA. However, the DA won't budge. In addition, he says he's not got a "confession" from me from some heroin addict who was in the lockup the same night they brought me in. We find out the DA has cut a deal to give this guy probation for testifying against me, but the DA says, "So what? He's still going to say you bragged about committing the robbery."

After sitting in jail for six months and going through 4 pubic defenders, my case finally comes up for trial. The DA offers me 8 years with three to serve. I know I'm innocent and the DA's case is full of holes, but do I run the risk? If I'm found guilty I'm looking at a minimum of 10 years to life. I don't have money to hire an experienced lawyer or an investigator.

Do I take the deal?
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Old 01-11-2011, 01:44 PM
27,573 posts, read 23,741,602 times
Reputation: 9242
interesting speech by the new Gov.

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Old 01-20-2011, 10:27 PM
Location: Southeast, where else?
3,891 posts, read 3,882,031 times
Reputation: 5739
Default Just some common sense....

Originally Posted by Woodcutterron View Post
Ahhh . . . and THAT is the big problem, heheh. We tend to have two schools of thought within the "Powers that be"

1) The "They're victims of their upbringing! It's not really their fault!" Club.

and just as bad or really even worse:

2) The "They Committed a crime! A crime is a crime! Jail them!" Club.

I should have included in my post that we really need to reign in "plea bargaining" too. I worked with a guy once who's son beat a 70-something year old woman badly while robbing her. He got caught. Long story short, after about a year, by the time he was adjudicated, it was whittled down to simple assault. Sentence: Time served.

When Jails are overcrowded, the smart thing to do is for the entire judicial system to adapt, and do it quickly. Even some crimes that should involve jail time in "a perfect world" need to start being adjudicated with some other form of punitive control, so we have room to incarcerate the violent.

Of course with tenets like plea bargaining, parole, suspension of sentences, etc. This becomes problematic. In my example above, the same charge could be applied to two guys who simply got into a good, old-fashioned mutually agreeable fistfight as was applied to a guy who brutally beat and tried to rob a frail old lady. How do you make that call when the jails are filling up?

"Triage" and flexibility on incarceratable offenses is simply impossible with the existence of plea bargaining and such. Then we have the problem of tough Judges who love to hand out huge sentences for relatively innocuous crimes. Similarly we have politically motivated "tough on crime" mandatory sentencing guidelines, that have little to do or any real allowance for extenuating circumstances.

Look at "Three strikes and your out". Sounds good, unless we consider it a bit more carefully. Suppose a guy steals a car at 18. Felony. Then at 19 kites a check for 600 bucks. Felony. Twenty five years later, after cleaning up his act, and being generally a productive member of society, beats a guy up pretty good for sleeping with his wife. Felony. Bye Bye. For doing what is . . . well . . . a perfectly legit reason for kicking someones as-er-butt, in my book, but my personal opinion on the specific reason aside, as a society, there should generally be some sort of punishment for it. But dang, put the guy away for 20 to life?

In a nutshell, the Judicial system needs to be revamped completely. Streamlined. We also need to get back to recording each and EVERY criminal court case, and civil cases that can possibly evolve into a jailable offense (like unpaid traffic tickets in many states) no matter how minor.

I don't think most folks realize how BADLY the court system is abused by Judges and prosecutors, particularly in lower courts where defendants are pretty clueless about the laws and courtroom procedure and are defending themselves.

You make some good points. There definitely has to be some common sense. And common sense should prevail. Take the case you mentioned....young guy beats up an old lady...is it really, really that hard for liberals to see that this is NOT good. How hard is it realize that this guy probably needs a real ass beating, literally, courtesy of the current "residents" at you-pick-the-state's-correctional-facility?

And of course, the realization that some kid steals a car at 18, kites a check at 19, gets a dose of reality and common sense and stays clean for 25 years and kills his wife's lover go to prison forever? Uh....nope....to be fair, that IS why they call it 3 strikes.....but, if the facts were to play out like you say and EXACTLY like you say, then yeah, I don't see putting that guy away under those EXACT circumstances a good common sense thing?

No, probably a 5-15 year deal might be more in order. Probably depends on how much she encouraged it....might have been better to have plugged her.....ahhhhhh but, I digress.....

Yes, common sense must prevail above all. I'm not really convinced that you have to overhaul the entire system but rather, force judges to use some darn common sense?

Don't let a guy with 8 DUI's out...conversely, don't put 9 year old away in jail forever if he shoots his sister of 7 with his daddy's gun in the dresser...tragic? Beyond measure but, is it really, really, really the same as if he had done this when he was 21 and his sister 19? Me thinks not.....

The 7 deadly sins are pretty clearly stated in Georgia and for the most part, the judges have little resistance in metting out punishment that fits those particular crimes. Ironically enough, these are probably the easiest to decide.....the ones that you mention earlier are a bit more "cloudy".....

Those and the ones with crimes of major proportions that have no family impact statements introduced....frankly, I don't think the family statement should impact the judges sentence one way or the other.....I do believe, however, that the families should be MORE than entitled to voice them....the judge should just plant the d-bag in jail for a very, very long time if it involves murder....again, the 7 deadly sins are already pretty defined.....if you really want to make it interesting, treat it like the middle east and let the victims families met out the punishment or at least, give them the option and yes, send the bill for the bullet(s) to the family of the criminal.

And, as far as punishment goes, a public execution might be the PHd version of "scared straight" some members of our society could truly benefit from...don't tell me executions have no deterrence factor...the only reason they don't for some is because YOU and I can't SEE them played out!!!

Imagine if we had THAT on Youtube? Better yet, sell tickets and give the proceeds to the survivors family. Executions have marvelous deterrence value...we just don't "leverage" the executions for maximum impact?

Hey, give it a whirl, do a few dozen and you tell me if that doesn't wake a few individuals up? In the middle east, they don't steal for fear of losing a hand...for real......and you think that won't work here?

See, you can have flexibility from a slap on the wrist to a complete removal of it and all stops in between. We simply lack the commitment in this society to treat all criminals fairly and punishments equitably. The rich and poor should enjoy the same level of prosectution under the same circumstances. No exceptions.

As far as prison and jail overcrowding, try a devils island approach. Surely we must have some inhospitable and cheap stretch of land somewhere that would/could serve this purpose more cost-effectively than the mega millions we spend on highly secure and elaborate systems as we see today (Pelican Bay comes to mind).....the idea is to punish, not drive the tax payers broke doing it?

It doesn't need an overhaul but perhaps a more equitable and consistent (Fair and consistent) use of the laws already on the books. And if anyone has a problem at the check out lane (execution chamber) let them take it up with the victims family.

If they survive that, we'll talk.
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Old 01-20-2011, 10:29 PM
Location: Out in the Badlands
10,339 posts, read 8,081,568 times
Reputation: 7612
Originally Posted by FlyiMetro View Post
Has anyone seen the news of the State Trooper that was murdered, by a man who was arrested 16 times. Is it really that easy to get out of jail in Atlanta? Very interesting situation.
Not only in Atlanta....many other places too.
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Old 01-22-2011, 11:51 PM
Location: International Spacestation
5,207 posts, read 5,832,308 times
Reputation: 1415
Originally Posted by Pretzelogik View Post
Not only in Atlanta....many other places too.
Atlanta jails are over populated. Its very easy for criminals to blend in with normal citizens in Atlanta.
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Old 01-24-2011, 10:42 AM
8,862 posts, read 14,124,438 times
Reputation: 2280
IIRC, somewhere in this thread or possibly a similar thread, someone compared crime in Atlanta to Detroit.

This item from the AJC caught my eye--
Gunman shoots 4 officers inside Detroit precinct *| ajc.com (http://www.ajc.com/news/nation-world/gunman-shoots-4-officers-813453.html - broken link)

Not that something like that couldn't happen here--knock on wood--but I'm glad that there hasn't been a similar incident to date.

'Like other precincts in the city, there are no metal detectors at the entrance and visitors are permitted to come in and talk face-to-face with police sitting behind a large, rounded desk.
Retired police Sgt. David Malhalab told The Associated Press that after the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks, the precincts added hand-held metal detectors at the public entrances. He worked at the 6th precinct for years and says the desks are open once you walk in the door.

"I was always very comfortable working the desk because I wanted that one-on-one feeling with the public, but I thought it was an accident waiting to happen and it did," said Malhalab, who spent 23 years on the force and retired in 2005.'
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