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This post is in response to white flight and the reasons these areas turn bad once minorities come.
In the end we can't sugar coat things. Lets look at it straight. We are in the the south. Jim Crow South only ended officially not, but 50 years ago. Yet it remained de facto long into the 70s and a little into the 80s. (and still does in places in South Georgia 0.o) So thats not more than 30-40 years since its ended. And you know that for those who have lived down here that we ourselves or some of our relatives actually lived through it. Therefore, nonsensical fears and prejudiced still exist on both sides.
So its understandable that you have lingering patterns of white flight. What people don't seem to understand though is the reason why there are large minority populations that move to their community. This is because a lot of the time, especially for African Americans, these people are moving up and out of their former deprived economic status. For AA's these are folks whose parents could only work as maids, cooks, chauffeurs, nanny's, or low paying factory workers. With more freedom than their parents that next generation could work at better jobs. Instead of living in their deprived community they can become renters in a wealthier one. And it only makes sense that they would try to seek out a better life for their kids. So where do they go? They move to historically white communities because they have been established for a while and therefore offer better opportunities then their old deprived area. Now of course this is not true for everybody, but for a lot African Americans this is the situation.
What folks don't seem to understand is that the lower income individuals are hard working people who are trying to move up in the world not stagnate! (Except for those folks still sitting out in the projects, but thats another argument in itself). Thats why they are moving to those white communities! Someone mentioned moving away because of the schools. Well the only reason they turn bad is because the economically established (usually white) residents leave the area for whatever reason and the school system that was supported by the taxes of an established upper and middle class, begins to fail because they now draw revenue from a population of a much lower social class. So in turn the schools lack the funding to maintain the level of education that it once provided. If people just stayed put and allowed the influx of lower income minorities, there may be some strain initially on the area, but we would see a much more stable and integrated society.
So in a nut shell it boils down to economics and race. Because if race wasn't a factor we wouldn't be having this discussion and their would probably be a much lower rate of poverty in minority groups.
Also one more thing to point out since you are specifically talking about Atlanta but like 1 in 10 blacks in this town are from here. Most arent even from the South. Same goes for a lot of the whites that have moved here. We natives are outnumbered by transplants, NOT the other way around. So whatever the affects of the Jim Crowe South may be. Very few of the current residents of this town were here or had family here that endured those times.
No I understand that. This is in reference to Atlanta. The history of De jure Jim Crow exacerbates the problem here. Thats why people from the north are shocked at the quick turn over of white to black schools. It occurs there, but at a slower pace.
The same thing has occurred in California, where Mexicans have illegally migrated to.
With the exception of Miami-Fort Lauderdale, Greater Houston, and California, nowhere has the inmigration of non-whites over the past twenty years into a metro area been as great as it has been in Atlanta, percentage-wise.
I agree with much of your post but I don't think the decline of the schools is about lack of funding. That's because the taxes are collected across a much wider area, not just where specific schools are located. Take a look at the city of Atlanta, for instance. It's schools are over 80% black yet they are funded at the highest level in the state. Per pupil expenditures quadrupled as the system shifted from primarily white to primarily black. There has also been a massive investment in school infrastructure. So it's hard to say money is the problem.
Money has NEVER been the problem. Student and parent involvement or lack of involvement in many black and hispanic schools are the reasons that they fail. Sorry but you just dont see this happening in Asian and Indian(subcontinent) students and their test scores are proof of this.
The same thing has occurred in California, where Mexicans have illegally migrated to.
With the exception of Miami-Fort Lauderdale, Greater Houston, and California, nowhere has the inmigration of non-whites over the past twenty years into a metro area been as great as it has been in Atlanta, percentage-wise.
Google Clayton County "white flight". My former hometown/county changed from white to black so quickly that there has literally been study after study done about it. Not sure if anywhere changed from white to black as quickly as Clayco did but the shear amount of interest in it seems to indicate so.
Very well said and I can totally understand a minoirty wanting to be in a better area with better schools. My responses were NOT an assualt on them but all this talk of diversity and integration rubs me the wrong way. Why cant a white say he wants to live around whites without it being taboo? Why cant the same white have a problem if minorities move into their area and cause a decline?
That to me is what is lost in all this feel good diversity stuff. Bottomline is this is still America and ANY of us can live any place we choose. If many of us choose to self segregate than so be it. It is our right to do so and we shouldnt be shunned because we dont want some big melting pot of different races and religions in our backyards. We can also move out if we feel the area that we call home is in decline. Regardless of the reasons.
Hey and thats fine everyone is definitely entitled to their own opinion! I hear you there. In regards to your question why can't whites say they want to live around other whites I think thats wrong to. That is natural to live around people that look like you or think like you. Everyone does it and its worng that its the case. However, in response to why can't whites move when their area begins to decline because of the minorities.. that is the complex. I mean think about it. People of lower incomes have been moving into higher income areas forever! Low income whites move to high income areas all the time, but no one pitches a fit. It just becomes a problem when that Pakistani family moves in, or that AA family or that Honduran family comes in.
eople get scared, think there values will go down (this mentality is a direct affect of blockbusting that has occurred in the past 30 years) and then they flee. Not understanding that if they stay put, the only thing that will change is the color of their neighbor down the street. Now there may be a crime spike, but thats what it is. A spike it goes up and once things stabilize it falls back down. That spike is usually those outliers who don't know how to adjust to the new environment, but assuming that the area is relatively stable, local law enforcement would quickly take care of that. So on a personal level.. I can understand the move cause not everyone is thinking like that, however, as a national movement, people need to realize this.
Parkview and Brookwood are examples of white flight from Asians, Hispanics, and to a lesser extent blacks (so I guess minorities in general), where as the other schools mentioned involve only blacks. In my opinion, the flight in Parkview and Brookwood is much less drastic and more gradual, and may not be white flight at all, but simply change, something every neighborhood is subject to.
Money has NEVER been the problem. Student and parent involvement or lack of involvement in many black and hispanic schools are the reasons that they fail. Sorry but you just dont see this happening in Asian and Indian(subcontinent) students and their test scores are proof of this.
You can't use immigrants as an example. Immigrants and AA are in two different boats. Immigrants come from their home countries that are extremely impoverished nations and see the economic opportunities that they have in this country. All of this was a choice. So they have one goal. They come for the sole purpose of making money and improving their lives. Thats what they do. That is why they are so successful. And its not just Asians, its Africans and Europeans and Latin Americans as well. AA have been in this nation and JUST NOW have access to those resources. As i've said before..its only been 40 years. Someone said most of the folks are from the north. They still suffered from de facto segregation! In fact today, northern cities are far more segregated then the south. Non involvement of parents of AA students (cause its not all blacks. Africans and people from the Caribbean are immigrants) and Hispanic parents is cause.. they are maybe trying to make a living? These are people that are working in fractured family's ( single AA mothers, because of the social state of the AA community, single Hispanic (Mexican) mothers or fathers because their relatives are across the border) working SEVERAL low paying jobs trying to support their children. So its understandable when you look at it in full context. However, as far as Hispanics that is just the current state of the nation. Since they are recent immigrants that came by choice, they are eventually going to rise up and pass AA just like everyone else. Cause if you remember back in the 70s it was the Asian immigrants etc.
Last edited by Listennow32; 12-30-2010 at 03:14 PM..
Google Clayton County "white flight". My former hometown/county changed from white to black so quickly that there has literally been study after study done about it. Not sure if anywhere changed from white to black as quickly as Clayco did but the shear amount of interest in it seems to indicate so.
I know Clayton County well. I can remember back during my high school days (the early to mid 90s) Morrow High was majority white, as was Lovejoy and a few other high schools in Clayton County. That quickly changed.
I can remember driving down I-75 and thinking, "we're in a majority white area" now as soon as you passed I-285. Even Hapeville inside I-285 had a slight white majority in early 90s.
By the mid 90s, the west side of I-75 until you got to Tara Boulevard was majority black, while Forest Park and Lake City on the east side were more of a mix. By the late 90s, Forest Park and Lake City were majority non-white, and the black majority on the west side of I-75 had crept itself down to the Southlake Mall area. By 2000 or 2001, Morrow was majority black, and the area became majority black down to Mt. Zion Rd. on the west side of the interstate. It was at this time that only locations near Jonesboro and points south remained majority white, notably the Lake Spivey area.
By 2003, Lovejoy was majority black, and the only majority white areas in the county that remained were a few areas around downtown Jonesboro and the Lake Spivey area. Fast forward to 2010, and the area around downtown Jonesboro has no real majority, and is perhaps now majority black, and the Lake Spivey area is mixed.
There is no longer a majority white area in Clayton County.
The black migration is now spreading into neighboring Henry and Fayette Counties. Yet, black people think that us whites should be "Fine and Dandy" with seeing this happen to suburb after suburb within our region, even with all the negative social ramifications.
Location: The Greatest city on Earth: City of Atlanta Proper
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stars&StripesForever
The black migration is now spreading into neighboring Henry and Fayette Counties. Yet, black people think that us whites should be "Fine and Dandy" with seeing this happen to suburb after suburb within our region, even with all the negative social ramifications.
Why shouldn't you be? No one is forcing you to move you know...
Exactly! Why does the white population continue to run if not for simple fear and prejudice? If they didn't run it wouldn't become a majority minority community... It gets that way because people are continually running! But new people moving into neighborhoods is natural. They change. And in the end it boils down to the simple fact that we are all human. We may look different or have different cultures, but we share the same DNA.
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In regards to your question why can't whites say they want to live around other whites I think thats wrong to. That is natural to live around people that look like you or think like you. Everyone does it and its worng that its the case. However, in response to why can't whites move when their area begins to decline because of the minorities.. that is the complex. I mean think about it. People of lower incomes have been moving into higher income areas forever! Low income whites move to high income areas all the time, but no one pitches a fit. It just becomes a problem when that Pakistani family moves in, or that AA family or that Honduran family comes in.
