Who thinks the MARTA should be expanded to include Cobb,Gwinnett, and the other metro Atlanta counties? (Sandy Springs: housing)

[Merin]

So a rail system in the burbs would not benefit people? Taking the train into town, having someone else drive, and spending 20 dollars a week on train fare instead of 80 dollars a week on gas would not benefit people? What kind of jobs are available in your are that only depressed people would take? I am going to assume they are jobs that the homeowners in your area would not take, and could not afford to take( since they have mortgages to pay)

[xxman777]

What about the people who need work and can't get to jobs because there is little work where they live and the work they can find is not accessible by transit?

I can't comment on why pirate_lafitte made this comment but generally when people use that argument they are referring to people who live in the suburbs but can't get to the job centers in the city, not the other way around. The reason the suburbs don't want to build a system is because they want to keep the poor from moving to their communities, even when in many cases many of the poor already live in the suburbs.

Also, usually transit systems do a very poor job of serving industrial areas. Transit systems work best in dense areas, industrial areas usually have too little density to be effectively served by public transit. Business districts and high density residential districts are most effectively served by public transit. I've never heard or read anything from Marta (or any transit agency) suggesting that they want to import cheap labor for industrial areas so I'm not sure where that is coming from.

Expansion of Marta to the suburban counties would provide very little benefit to residents of Fulton and Dekalb counties (except maybe get some of the suburban commuters off the intown roads). As a resident of Fulton County I don't see any reason why I would use an expanded rail system (unless for some reason I decided I wanted to go to the Target in Duluth instead of the one at Lindbergh or the Chilis in Kennesaw instead of the one in Toco Hills...) but I still feel it should be expanded (and would be willing to help pay for it) because it is best for the region.

Originally Posted by Prichard

Why would I vote to bus people in from depressed areas just so they can try to find jobs where I live? Or, why should I be required to suffer to support a poorer community that cannot sustain itself? I don't want that. If I did, I'd move to the depressed areas and open a business there to provide jobs for people. I admit, I am not that kind-hearted.

The reason that people continue to move out to the outskirts of Atlanta is to get away from bussing programs, such as MARTA, which want to import cheap labor for industrial areas. Why would I want to grow bigger industrial areas in my nice rural-suburban community? If MARTA doesn't benefit the residents of a community, and those residents don't want MARTA in their town, why are a bunch of poor, unemployed people from a city 30 miles away cramming this down on an outlying community? Sounds quite draconian to me.

[Merin]

Originally Posted by xxman777

The reason the suburbs don't want to build a system is because they want to keep the poor from moving to their communities, even when in many cases many of the poor already live in the suburbs.

This whole post is eye opening for me. How does Marta all of a suddenly make housing affordable for those who were unable to afford them in the past. If you live in a community with 400k+ homes, how does Marta suddenly allow those who could only afford 200k homes to all of a sudden move in? Is it the fear that developers would all of a sudden build lower income apartments. I am not sure how things work in all the other counties, but couldn't residents make sure the areas near Marta were zoned in such a way there no apartments could be built? If I lived in the burbs I would be alot more afraid of what is going to happen when Atlanta gets rid of the public housing. I have heard rumors that they are giving those people vouchers so they can move outside of the city.

[jxu66]

Unfortunately for many poors in the city, it is not a rumor.

Housing decisions forcing poor to leave city, some say | ajc.com (broken link)

[xxman777]

Originally Posted by Merin

This whole post is eye opening for me. How does Marta all of a suddenly make housing affordable for those who were unable to afford them in the past. If you live in a community with 400k+ homes, how does Marta suddenly allow those who could only afford 200k homes to all of a sudden move in? Is it the fear that developers would all of a sudden build lower income apartments. I am not sure how things work in all the other counties, but couldn't residents make sure the areas near Marta were zoned in such a way there no apartments could be built? If I lived in the burbs I would be alot more afraid of what is going to happen when Atlanta gets rid of the public housing. I have heard rumors that they are giving those people vouchers so they can move outside of the city.

It doesn’t start with the 400k house, it starts with the older apartment complex next door, or the run down 1960’s ranch up the road. Rents in the city are higher then in the suburbs so a family living in a run down, crime ridden area with bad schools could significantly improve their quality of life without much of an increase in rent by moving to certain areas in the suburbs. They don’t because they can’t afford the commute. Once the poor start to move to a nice, pristine, suburban community, crime usually goes up, the schools usually get worse and the cost of services go up while the tax base goes down. Of course community leaders don’t like this so they get scared and try and keep the poor out (and one way they think works is to keep out transit).

The reality however, is public rail transit usually raises property values because people want to live near it. People see it as a valuable amenity and are willing to pay a premium to live near it. Also, as cities continue to push out the poor (this isn’t just happening Atlanta, it is a nationwide trend) the poor are going to continue to move to the suburbs anyway because the cost of the extra commute is becoming less then the higher cost to live in the city.

[Sunnydee]

My kids and I went to DC for a week of sightseeing, museum going, etc. and we took the Metro everywhere. It was our first experience on commuter rail and it was wonderful! Much better than driving the car downtown and trying to find a place to park. In the METRO DC area, you can live in a very nice neighborhood and still walk to the METRO station. IMHO, if Atlanta could achieve this you'd really have something!

[atlantagreg30127]

Originally Posted by Merin

If you live in a community with 400k+ homes, how does Marta suddenly allow those who could only afford 200k homes to all of a sudden move in? Is it the fear that developers would all of a sudden build lower income apartments. I am not sure how things work in all the other counties, but couldn't residents make sure the areas near Marta were zoned in such a way there no apartments could be built? If I lived in the burbs I would be alot more afraid of what is going to happen when Atlanta gets rid of the public housing. I have heard rumors that they are giving those people vouchers so they can move outside of the city.

You're exactly right. If people have a gripe about "trashy" moving into their area, they need to talk to the officials THEY elect, not a public transit agency about it.

I'm in Powder Springs. Apartment complex construction is banned here. They simply will not give builders permits to build apartments in the city limits here - period. Their theory is that it brings in crime, high-dense living, etc. But guess what? We have no public transit here, and no apartments, but we still have trashy people moving out here anyway!

I know people who live in a particular subdivision up the road where the minimum home price is around $325,000. They say the police are in their community constantly because of several households of people who disrespect everyone around them. Playing loud music with deep base (say Rap) at all hours - leaving junk in their front yards - teens who cause trouble in the community - etc etc... and this is again in a $325k + community. There is no rail, no bus service. What caused it? "Interest-only" mortgages, special financing, etc. People who can't really afford, care for, or appreciate these places are getting around the systems and finding loopholes and special mortgages to get them into the communities. MARTA had nothing to do with it. With have no MARTA or regular CCT service here at all.

In my own area in Powder Springs there are numerous families that I would definately call "trash" (black AND white) who bought homes under these same special rates, or, are renting. For that matter you've got sports stars who make millions of dollars a year buying mansions, who commit felonies, dog fighting, drugs - everything else. They're rich but they're still trashy, and pay CASH for their homes.

So ok, you can find an occasional bum or teen riding a train or bus who you'd just as soon avoid. But you can't blame a neighborhood or area's downfall on public transit. Crappy people are everywhere on EVERY income level, and finding ways to buy into expensive homes. And, they have cars.

And a special note that I am in no way comparing trashy, unappreciative people to someone who is simply "lower income" who cares about their home and family - they DO exist, and affordable housing for those folks is in rare supply.

[JPD]

Originally Posted by Sunnydee

My kids and I went to DC for a week of sightseeing, museum going, etc. and we took the Metro everywhere. It was our first experience on commuter rail and it was wonderful! Much better than driving the car downtown and trying to find a place to park. In the METRO DC area, you can live in a very nice neighborhood and still walk to the METRO station. IMHO, if Atlanta could achieve this you'd really have something!

The DC Metro is fantastic. One of the many thing they got right (and that Atlanta got wrong) is that almost the entire Metro system in DC is underground. You get off the train and go up the escalator and you're instantly in an area where there is a great deal of activity. Most of the Marta stations are above ground and are surrounded by parking lots and are not located in areas of activity. Most Marta stations feel detached from the community, and tend to dominate an area. DC Metro stations are tucked away and unobtrusive. All you see is the color coded Metro pole and an escalator.

[rcsteiner]

Originally Posted by Merin

So a rail system in the burbs would not benefit people? Taking the train into town, having someone else drive, and spending 20 dollars a week on train fare instead of 80 dollars a week on gas would not benefit people? What kind of jobs are available in your are that only depressed people would take? I am going to assume they are jobs that the homeowners in your area would not take, and could not afford to take( since they have mortgages to pay)

Wow... Who spends 80/week on gas? I spent roughly $40 every two weeks, but I'm living OTP relatively close to where I work (8 miles, no freeway needed).

I would like to see rail in Cobb just so I could use it to go downtown on the few occasions I want to, but chances are rather low that it would travel the same direction I am for work...

[JPD]

Originally Posted by rcsteiner

Wow... Who spends 80/week on gas? ...

Is that a serious question? I know lots of people who pay that much or more due to where they live and work.