What should happen to "fix" the problems with metro Atlanta's public school systems? (Clayton: low income, credit)

[equinox63]

What should happen to "fix" the problems with metro Atlanta's public school systems?

Some are proponents of total privatization. What would a totally privatized metro Atlanta school system realistically look like and what would be the ramifications of such an entity?

[cwkimbro]

Well first off... two major things...

Be careful saying metro Atlanta's public school systems. Many of them are doing just fine and are really well run! Gwinnett County, the state's largest, just won the Broad Prize and special recognition for closing the k-12 education gap with low income and minority students.

The outside world and our region needs to focus on our success just as much as our failures.

As far as Clayton, Dekalb, and Atlanta (proper) are concerned those are the three school systems that have most of the current problems. In every case the problem was often not the schools themselves, but was an accreditation problem caused mostly by in-fighting with the school board.

I would say part of the problem is proponents of ideas like privatization. This isn't to say we shouldn't consider it at some point, but the main problems they have right now is lack of leadership stability and in-fighting. For the immediate time being now is not the time to try some major change. Now is the time for school board leaders to step up and show stability of already functioning schools, rather than push their separate agendas for change.

Stability and accreditation first.... Change and reform second. If we do reform in a large way our school system we need to move together and show stability.

The other side to this is residents from all sides need to step up and vote leaders in who will show the maturity to realize that stability and accreditation is far more important than any other agendas that could pushed on the school system. Only then can we seek ways to make changes for the better and try to move forward together.

[equinox63]

Originally Posted by cwkimbro

Well first off... two major things...

Be careful saying metro Atlanta's public school systems. Many of them are doing just fine and are really well run! Gwinnett County, the state's largest, just won the Broad Prize and special recognition for closing the k-12 education gap with low income and minority students.

The outside world and our region needs to focus on our success just as much as our failures.

Duly noted...

[tomno00]

students need to study more... and parents need to be more involved

[equinox63]

Originally Posted by tomno00

students need to study more... and parents need to be more involved

Okay... how do we solve the problem of this not happening?

[newflowers]

Originally Posted by equinox63

What should happen to "fix" the problems with metro Atlanta's public school systems?

Some are proponents of total privatization. What would a totally privatized metro Atlanta school system realistically look like and what would be the ramifications of such an entity?

When the general public and special interests groups look at public schools and say "charter" and "privitization" they fail to consider one thing that public schools do that these others do not: public schools are compelled to take all comers, regardless of academic level, metal health, income, family situation, and the host of other problems for which public schools have become responsible. A privitized school system is under no such obligation.

If schools were to be privitized, what would happen to the students nobody wants? The students who drag down test scores? The students on the drop-out train? The students with irresponsible or no parents? The 12th grader who still has trouble reading Green Eggs and Ham? The 10th grader who can't do basic multiplication? The pregnant teenage girl? The fresh off the boat, speak-no-English students? The gang-thug? The druggies?

I am not there yet, but my research leads me to believe there are quite a few great, excellent, very good, and good schools. And, yes, there are some really bad schools too. Like most places, the worse schools tend to be lower socio-economic areas - which means we'd need to look at the larger societial and home issues to help improve the schools.

Please note I am not touching the current political nonesense - I work for a similar district - so my comments are looking only at public schools as posed by the OP.

[tomno00]

Originally Posted by equinox63

Okay... how do we solve the problem of this not happening?

my sister is a teacher and she says the biggest issue is parents not taking an active role with their childrens' education.

How do you solve that? .... how bout penalizing parents? idk...

[newflowers]

How would you penalize parents? make the kids stay home? Reasons for suspension are governed by Ed Code. Make parents come to school? What do you do when they refuse?

One of the local school districts here won the Broad award and made vast improvements by establishing grade levels beyond which students could not pass if they were underachieving.

At grades 3, 5, and 8 students who did not reach grade-level benchmarks for reading, writing, and math were NOT passed to the next grade. Instead, there were sent to a different campus for remediation before they could move forward. This has been wildly successful, but initially, it caused a HUGE rucus - partly because most of the students being held for remediation were minorities and partly because parents were upset their babies were being singled out for negative attention. But the school district stuck to its guns and was quite successful with several blue ribbon and nationally recognized schools in a few years.

[cwkimbro]

Originally Posted by newflowers

When the general public and special interests groups look at public schools and say "charter" and "privatization" they fail to consider one thing that public schools do that these others do not: public schools are compelled to take all comers, regardless of academic level, metal health, income, family situation, and the host of other problems for which public schools have become responsible. A privatized school system is under no such obligation.

If schools were to be privatized, what would happen to the students nobody wants? The students who drag down test scores? The students on the drop-out train? The students with irresponsible or no parents? The 12th grader who still has trouble reading Green Eggs and Ham? The 10th grader who can't do basic multiplication? The pregnant teenage girl? The fresh off the boat, speak-no-English students? The gang-thug? The druggies?

I am not there yet, but my research leads me to believe there are quite a few great, excellent, very good, and good schools. And, yes, there are some really bad schools too. Like most places, the worse schools tend to be lower socio-economic areas - which means we'd need to look at the larger societal and home issues to help improve the schools.

Please note I am not touching the current political nonsense - I work for a similar district - so my comments are looking only at public schools as posed by the OP.

I'm not really for the privatization of schools, but in fairness....

when people discuss privatization of school systems... they often the whole system or districts within the system... meaning the same existing schools are likely to exist only a private company contracted by the local government would manage them. This means the schools would take every student the government puts in the district.

The devil is always in the details. There are two main separate reasons to privatize schools... and they each have opposing problems..

1) Lower the cost of running a school: Opens up potential for a competitive bidding process and allows a company with the most competitive ideas for increasing cost-efficiency of running the physical school to end up managing it.
The problem being that the goal is decreasing costs of running a school. A cost cutting measure might have adverse affects on quality/results. Therefore you have to legislate into the competitive bid contracts a need for results... This turns into a politically dicey issue.
Although, there are some good examples of privatization in limited forms. For example, the teachers and the education of students stays in the school boards control, but the physical structures of the schools are built, operated and maintained by private companies in a competitive bid. Goal would be to cut operation costs, while not touching direct components of education quality.

2) This is more for a school system like Atlanta (proper) where the system has more money per student to pay out. The idea is to pick a company on a competitive bid for education quality, but the caveat the financial incentive is tied directly to results. (just pulling random numbers) Every student in the system generates $100/year for managing company, every C average student increases the payout an extra $25/year, b student $50/year, and a averages $100/year, and students that excel in advanced courses/AP/etc.. an extra $150/year.

This creates a direct financial incentive for the managing company to creatively do whatever it takes to make student succeed, regardless of their background, home problems, poorly educated parents...etc.. If a company does poorly, then the city could save money for trying another method themselves later.

This can be dicey, because if a company's idea fails, then students might be just as bad off or potentially worse. When a company fails they fail financially and go out of business, but it also fails the students that are left behind. The premise of free-market competition is bad ideas fail. The problem is there are limits to how many private companies can exist at once, some will fail, and when they fail... it also has consequences with a generation of students.

In many cases this is also created through a charter school where a parents makes the choice to but their kids into a privatized-government school. (side note...since a few people out there get confused... its a privatized-operated government school... not a private school) The students who go to the school (if too many parents request it... should be done randomly, so the privately managed school doesn't do well by nature of getting the better students to start with)

In both cases audits of performance and building maintenance are extremely important. You have to make sure the companies do not earn their profit, because they ignore maintenance and building for the future and would bring future consequences. But this is also where the devil is in the details and the execution from the government side is extremely important and poorly thought out. Many who argue for privatization do not do a good job setting up the contract rules and auditing the situation.

[tomno00]

I wish parents could be penalized.... how sweet it would be. I was thinking more of a monetary penalty assessed by the teachers if parents refused to cooperate with them. How about... for each call a parent blows off, they are assessed an additional $1,000 of W-2 income that they have to report on their tax return.

And the holding kids back plan sounds good to me too.