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Old 02-28-2011, 02:31 PM
 
29,362 posts, read 26,322,855 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jsimms3 View Post
See I differ from you because "hostile stares" are not exactly the environment I want to be in, especially if I'm one color and not too large (or a woman) and the hostile stares are directed at me or my party.
I wanted to touch on this briefly. A hostile glare is just that -- nobody has to like me and if the way somebody looks at me is hostile, I can simply ignore it, glare right back at them, or maybe sit down with them and try to work it out if time permits. We don't need to start policing people because of how they look at us.

 
Old 02-28-2011, 02:37 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arjay57 View Post
Well, it seems to me you are more or less suggesting that retail and entertainment should cater to local residents. Where does that leave people who don't have the same partying and shopping opportunities where they live? If they can't come to your neighborhood, are they just SOL?

Unless I am mistaken, in the U.S. neighborhoods don't "belong" to the residents any more than they do to the next guy. If it's a public space, anybody can party there whether they share your cultural values or not.

Which reminds me. I'm thinking about setting up a mini tractor pull and chuckwagon cookoff at Atlantic Station. It'll be perfect if they'll get those big tents out of my way.

Isn't that the sacrifice you make when you move to the burbs? Didn't you want the big cheap house and lack amenities?
 
Old 02-28-2011, 02:45 PM
 
Location: San Francisco
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(To Arjay57)^^^^I don't know how I should respond to that except to say that when I go out to places where there are crowds, I choose to go to places that have crowds of people that won't give me any hostile glares. I don't know how on earth you think that it's acceptable/normal for people to give other people hostile glares. I'm so not used to that that I don't know how I would respond except me, being a peaceful person, would probably be pretty intimidated (but isn't that the point of a hostile glare?).

Clearly I'm on a different planet/wavelength from you guys. I do know that there is a perception problem at AS. I do know the owners/new developers want a unique, diverse center that caters more to residents than it has in the past. I do know that the new owners have been getting feedback from a diverse group of people letting them know that there is at the very least a perception problem. If I had to venture a guess, many of the excellent ideas in this thread on the first few pages will probably be implemented in some way shape or fashion. I know that the current residents, nearby residents, and new owners do not want Atlantic Station to continue as it has been, and so all of you party revelers and "hip" late night crowd may be disappointed. You guys being disappointed might translate to more people being happy; at least that's what the local 3 mile radius market is saying.

Also, residential neighborhoods (or those neighborhoods with large residential components) belong in a large stake to the local residents. As has been so beautifully stated before by someone involved with the AS transformation, when you go to New York, the residential areas of Manhattan are not the 24/7 buzzing nighlife clubbing districts, though they do have establishments and stores that cater to the residents. When you go to New York, if you really want to party, you go to the Meatpacking District. Fact.
 
Old 02-28-2011, 03:21 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by muxBuppie View Post
Isn't that the sacrifice you make when you move to the burbs? Didn't you want the big cheap house and lack amenities?
Oh, I don't think so. The suburbs operate the same way. Anybody can go there and shop and party all they want so long as it's a public space.

And I believe most people wouldn't view moving the the suburbs as a sacrifice at all. Typically it has been seen as a step up. Remember, neighborhoods like Adair Park, Garden Hills and Virginia-Highland that are considered "intown" today were sylvan suburbs not that long ago.
 
Old 02-28-2011, 03:29 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jsimms3 View Post
(To Arjay57)^^^^I don't know how I should respond to that except to say that when I go out to places where there are crowds, I choose to go to places that have crowds of people that won't give me any hostile glares. I don't know how on earth you think that it's acceptable/normal for people to give other people hostile glares. I'm so not used to that that I don't know how I would respond except me, being a peaceful person, would probably be pretty intimidated (but isn't that the point of a hostile glare?).
My hide is not made out of leather either (yet). I'm just saying I can't go to Atlantic Station or anywhere else and demand that people not give me the evil eye. They have every right to consider me on their turf. I might not like it but I have the option to go elsewhere.
 
Old 02-28-2011, 04:02 PM
 
864 posts, read 888,985 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arjay57 View Post
Oh, I don't think so. The suburbs operate the same way. Anybody can go there and shop and party all they want so long as it's a public space.

Typically it has been seen as a step up.
How on earth is that the case when it's more expensive to live intown? Anybody with a half decent paying job can get a place all the way out in Henry County or Lawrenceville.
 
Old 02-28-2011, 04:17 PM
 
Location: Ono Island, Orange Beach, AL
10,024 posts, read 9,337,664 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by muxBuppie View Post
How on earth is that the case when it's more expensive to live intown? Anybody with a half decent paying job can get a place all the way out in Henry County or Lawrenceville.
Depends on where you live. There are some extremely expensive areas around Alpharetta, by Atlanta Country Club, etc. There are some poor and inexpensive areas intown. And if you look simply at the stats, only 500k live in the city and about 5 million live in the metro area (most of which are suburbs). Further, the intown living revival is a relatively recent phenomenon. Not to put words in his mouth, but I think that's what arjay was meaning.
 
Old 02-28-2011, 04:17 PM
 
Location: Atlanta
6,562 posts, read 7,674,455 times
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I think you guys are being a little hard on jsimms. The opinions offered make alot more sense than those from others on here that have trouble with Atlantic Station....

Different people will be impacted differently from "hostile states" or perceptions of hostile stares. Some people will shy away from it, some people will not care, some people will stay in the exurbs and offer racists rants, and some people will stare right back.

But if we are to have an honest two-way conversation about race relations at Atlantic Station (and by all means... we can ignore the trolls and unproductive conversation). We have to realize this is a two-way thing.... The fact that there are hostile stares is an issue in itself that we eventually have to overcome.

I'll be honest... I don't quite like the phrase hostile stares, even though I immediately know what people are talking about. The word hostile makes it sound like the person staring has to be bitter and wants to lunge out and attack and that usually isn't the case. But the stares do exists. I don't care what people are there ultimately, but there does need to be some mutually agreeable set of cultural values we all follow if we are to build a neighborhood and truly share and enjoy areas together. I'm not saying we aren't moving in that direction. I'd say we are rapidly... but when I hear these arguments.. I think the exact same thing.

The reason I brought up StoneCrest Mall earlier... the area and it's customers are majority black (and I am white), but whenever I am there I don't feel, notice any stares of looks like I am out of place... or I am just some privileged white boy visiting there. It is a better atmosphere for more people to come together in a way where they feel like themselves regardless of who is around. .... and I am saying this being the guy who usually doesn't care. I grew up down here and it is a simple fact of life there are people who act in these different ways and people who don't, but I notice many outsiders get scared away easily.

and Arjay... I really do respect you and your opinions even though we disagree sometimes... but to me this isn't a question of whose turf is it and shouldn't be. I also wouldn't characterize this as discussing demands of how people behave... but more so discussing our evolution of race relations. There are bound to be different opinions with many valid points, but over time these are issues to discuss and "socially negotiate"/come to an understanding... even if it isn't white and black or put into words or policed. These are the types of things to discuss if we want to continue moving towards a society where people get along better.

People have the right to go elsewhere, but that is the thing... they do. I still dream of a society where people don't and share spaces better. The weird thing is people do share spaces very well in some areas
 
Old 02-28-2011, 04:33 PM
 
864 posts, read 888,985 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AnsleyPark View Post
Depends on where you live. There are some extremely expensive areas around Alpharetta, by Atlanta Country Club, etc. There are some poor and inexpensive areas intown. And if you look simply at the stats, only 500k live in the city and about 5 million live in the metro area (most of which are suburbs). Further, the intown living revival is a relatively recent phenomenon. Not to put words in his mouth, but I think that's what arjay was meaning.
The fact stands. Nine times out of ten for the same square footage you can get much more for less outside the intown area and without being in the hood. If you live here it's just intellectual dishonesty to even imply otherwise. That very fact is the biggest reason so many people live outside the city. I can work in retail and find a nice big apartment out in Douglasville or Barrow County with little to no crime if I wanted, but of course I am sacrificing the amenities the city has to offer in most cases the further I go.
 
Old 02-28-2011, 04:39 PM
 
Location: Atlanta
6,562 posts, read 7,674,455 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by muxBuppie View Post
How on earth is that the case when it's more expensive to live intown? Anybody with a half decent paying job can get a place all the way out in Henry County or Lawrenceville.
I would tread carefully with these arguments.....

There are many many jobs on the Atlanta's northside nowadays. Many people move to town and pretty much stay on the northside as if it is it's own city. There are many areas that are very nice, very expensive, and considered to be good locations.

In these days ... when we consider urban and regional planning.... we have to stop the assumptions everyone is trying to get downtown and Suwanee is so far away. Many people are trying to get to Suwanee, Duluth, and Alpharetta for work.

The northside has more spread out job centers/edge cities, and not tightly compacted downtown areas, but that doesn't mean the office space and jobs aren't there and people's desire to be close to them.

There are parts to Lawrenceville that are extremely affordable, but if you start caring about schools and access to certain job centers the home prices go up.

Most of the Atlanta/Downtown centric commuting suburbs are closer to town like Lilburn and Tucker. Once you start going further out the percentage of people trying to get to Peachtree Corners, 316, and Alpharetta instead of Downtown and Midtown starts to greatly increase.

It is kind of like.... we overgrew our commuting capacity, so people just increasingly move their jobs outwards with them. The more we did that... the more desirable being close to Perimeter, Peachtree Corners, Alpharetta becomes. It also becomes reeeeally desirable to live in between all of these places, like in North Fulton near John's creek/East Roswell. Home prices are pretty high and stable there. You also notice a huge uptick in the number of country clubs.

When Gwinnett won the Broad Prize for being such a great urban school system I really enjoyed hearing all of the jokes I heard from some ITP'ers. I admit Gwinnett has a newer, much more auto-centric design, but people fail to see it has a great number of people, jobs, and density that there are out there. We don't have a truly Atlanta only-centric metro like we did in say 1990.


So in short... the traditional suburban areas cover a vast amount of space... yes you can find lots of affordable homes, however when you move towards areas that are better connected to higher paying suburban job/office centers... home values increase just like they do with homes that are closer to Atlanta's.

I could choose to only look at home prices in some parts of south Atlanta and west Atlanta and say Atlanta is a very cheap city, but then I'd be wrong and just looking at some areas and not others. You can't do the same thing for areas outside of Atlanta.
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