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Old 02-25-2011, 10:53 AM
 
12,977 posts, read 21,087,707 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JasonH_AS View Post
I have lived in Atlantic Station for almost 3 years. If it weren't for the shuttle, my wife and I - who fit the current target demographic by being in our 30's and having professional salaries - would not have moved here. It's made life so much better having the shuttle. If it goes away without a replacement better than the current MARTA bus route, we would quickly move away. I work downtown and attend GSU for graduate school at night. Yet my wife and I can live at least a moderately more environmentally friendly life by only having one car.

I completely understand the desire to shut down shuttle service to MARTA. I ride the shuttle at all hours - and sometimes I walk home from the Arts Center just to avoid the annoying kids on the shuttle. But AS is one of the few places in Atlanta where you can get by without a car because of its connection to MARTA. If you want to attract moderately young, affluent people, bowing down to the car culture is not the way to do it. AS has a chance to actually allow people to lead a modern urban life. I would hate to see that ruined by hoping that the northern 'burbs crowd will pack their cars in our garages. Also consider that there are several large office buildings serviced by the shuttle - those office workers are left out of discussions like these, which is a HUGE mistake. They have money to spend too, and as someone who was worked in an office in Atlantic Station, I know a lot of these people do not spend money there because they are not being catered to.

I would much rather see expansion of the shuttle to other areas and an attempt to encourage non-automobile commuting. I live 2 blocks from Publix, but I rarely walk there, because not only are you taking your life into your hands at night due to crime, but you also have to just hope that people driving cars have it cross their minds that pedestrians might be around. More pedestrian friendly walkways (bridges, even, to avoid the traffic) would help.

I would like to see a better connection with the Tech campus and more offerings for their students, because many of them DO have money to spend, but just have no interest in AS. I would also not completely count out GSU - they have well over 30,000 students. A lot of people forget that. They're obviously not in the same target group because of the location of the school, but there are a lot of students there, including a lot of graduate students with professional jobs.

There are a lot of other changes I'd like to see, but I don't think becoming less commuter friendly is a positive move at all. It is VERY difficult to find a place to live in Atlanta where every adult in the household doesn't need a car, and I think AS should play up that it IS one of those places to attract the kind of people it wants living there.
Yes, excellent commentary, Jason. Great post.

I agree with you 100%.

 
Old 02-25-2011, 12:09 PM
 
Location: New York City Area
394 posts, read 551,874 times
Reputation: 163
Jsimms3:

Quote:
I do see students using the station to get to school SCAD during the day (that's a small chunk of the student population), but Tech, GSU, and Emory Medical students are the 95% bulk of students in the area (there are ~62,000 students) and none of them use Art Center.
That's why there should actually be even more Marta to shuttle connections, via Midtown and North Ave stations, to provide more options (especially to the GSU and Tech students). There could be sort of a circular shuttle line connecting and bringing students/workers/etc to the North Ave, Midtown and Arts Center Marta stations and to other destinations in between on the east side . Once at Arts Center station, the shuttle could continue over to Atlantic Station and then continue on to the other west side destinations and then back again. The circular shuttle should maybe go as far south as the Centennial Olympic Park area and loop in with the streetcar. All of these major destinations (Centennial Olympic Park/Aquarium/GWCC, Midtown Mile, Atlantic Station, West Midtown and Tech Campus/Ferst Center for the Arts/Bobby Dodd Stadium) could be connected on the east side and west side via this circular shuttle line.


Jason, thank you for your insight. I have no other rebuttals against making AS more inaccessible and ending the shuttle connection to Arts Center station. You've said it all.

Last edited by NYbyWAYofGA; 02-25-2011 at 01:02 PM..
 
Old 02-25-2011, 12:21 PM
 
1,498 posts, read 2,553,290 times
Reputation: 550
Sorry, but the truth is that you can't have your cake and eat it too. Either the free shuttle to Arts Center is discontinued (or perhaps drastically altered either by charging fares, imposing age restrictions, imposing curfews, etc.) or AS will fail. Is the blind devotion to every form of mass transit so strong that people would rather see AS fail than make changes? Clearly in this case the benefits are outweighed by the costs.
 
Old 02-25-2011, 12:37 PM
 
Location: Johns Creek area
9,608 posts, read 8,690,408 times
Reputation: 5103
Quote:
Originally Posted by BringBackCobain View Post
Sorry, but the truth is that you can't have your cake and eat it too. Either the free shuttle to Arts Center is discontinued (or perhaps drastically altered either by charging fares, imposing age restrictions, imposing curfews, etc.) or AS will fail. Is the blind devotion to every form of mass transit so strong that people would rather see AS fail than make changes? Clearly in this case the benefits are outweighed by the costs.
I find Atlantic Station to be pleasant whenever I go there, except for Friday and Saturday nights. Perhaps during those time frames the shuttle should charge passengers a rather hefty fee (except for residents like Jason, of course). Perhaps then this would go a long way in solving the problems noted by BBC and others.
 
Old 02-25-2011, 12:41 PM
 
985 posts, read 1,434,243 times
Reputation: 688
Quote:
Originally Posted by BringBackCobain View Post
Sorry, but the truth is that you can't have your cake and eat it too. Either the free shuttle to Arts Center is discontinued (or perhaps drastically altered either by charging fares, imposing age restrictions, imposing curfews, etc.) or AS will fail. Is the blind devotion to every form of mass transit so strong that people would rather see AS fail than make changes? Clearly in this case the benefits are outweighed by the costs.
Makes no sense, provided that most of the "undesirables" in your eye do not live in Midtown, they are using the free shuttle as oppose to the Marta bus service. Since they arrived at Art Center by MARTA rail, they would just hop on the bus instead, unless you suggest cutting Marta access completely.
 
Old 02-25-2011, 01:09 PM
 
6 posts, read 6,505 times
Reputation: 24
Quote:
Originally Posted by BringBackCobain View Post
Sorry, but the truth is that you can't have your cake and eat it too. Either the free shuttle to Arts Center is discontinued (or perhaps drastically altered either by charging fares, imposing age restrictions, imposing curfews, etc.) or AS will fail. Is the blind devotion to every form of mass transit so strong that people would rather see AS fail than make changes? Clearly in this case the benefits are outweighed by the costs.
Truly, I understand your concern - I ride the shuttle almost every day and at nearly all hours of the shuttle's operation, and I see the crowds that are brought over (and the composition of the crowds definitely changes throughout the day). But I think there are other ways to correct the problems while not cutting off the shuttle - or some form of it. I in no way wish to see AS fail, but rather I see taking advantage of in-town living as an integral piece of attracting the right kind of residents and shoppers.
 
Old 02-25-2011, 01:31 PM
 
Location: New York City Area
394 posts, read 551,874 times
Reputation: 163
Quote:
Originally Posted by onemanarmy View Post
Makes no sense, provided that most of the "undesirables" in your eye do not live in Midtown, they are using the free shuttle as oppose to the Marta bus service. Since they arrived at Art Center by MARTA rail, they would just hop on the bus instead, unless you suggest cutting Marta access completely.
Onemanarmy, exactly. The free shuttle service from Arts Center station is basically like a Marta rail to bus transfer that you would get if you used your Breeze card to ride to the station in the first place. So, even if the free shuttle service were to start charging, the riders from Arts Center station would probably still get a free transfer to the shuttle (otherwise, they will just use the free transfer and take the bus over).
 
Old 02-25-2011, 01:52 PM
 
734 posts, read 1,778,332 times
Reputation: 600
Yes I agree that shuttle service should continue, it makes no sense to discontinue it for the many reasons Jason said but maybe adding off duty police officers on each shuttle might help. Don't know if there's any type of security already in place? Jason? If not I think that might help. From all indications security is priority number one for the owners so why not start with improving existing services already offered.

As far as suggestions, I agree with the current sentiment, offer me something unique, less Subways and more Cafe 19s.
 
Old 02-25-2011, 02:01 PM
 
Location: Atlanta
6,458 posts, read 7,301,381 times
Reputation: 4206
Quote:
Originally Posted by BringBackCobain View Post
Sorry, but the truth is that you can't have your cake and eat it too. Either the free shuttle to Arts Center is discontinued (or perhaps drastically altered either by charging fares, imposing age restrictions, imposing curfews, etc.) or AS will fail. Is the blind devotion to every form of mass transit so strong that people would rather see AS fail than make changes? Clearly in this case the benefits are outweighed by the costs.
Well either you can fire up the ovens and bake cake or just give up don't bake any cake.... and then no one has cake at all.

The shuttle is paid for. It is needed to help bring customers to the area and residents in the area who are paying taxes into the TAD.

It isn't like people are eating cake without baking it.
 
Old 02-25-2011, 02:43 PM
 
Location: Atlanta
7,732 posts, read 11,806,535 times
Reputation: 2774
Quote:
Originally Posted by BringBackCobain View Post
Sorry, but the truth is that you can't have your cake and eat it too. Either the free shuttle to Arts Center is discontinued (or perhaps drastically altered either by charging fares, imposing age restrictions, imposing curfews, etc.) or AS will fail. Is the blind devotion to every form of mass transit so strong that people would rather see AS fail than make changes? Clearly in this case the benefits are outweighed by the costs.
The shuttle isn't going anywhere, despite your wishes.

I think a lot of people are forgetting that the entire Federal approval process for the 17th Street Bridge involved a public transit aspect. Back when AS was under construction, the metro area was still under the non-attainment ruling by the EPA which basically dictated that we could not expand our highways. The bridge was only approved because transit was proposed to connect with the Arts Center Station - specifically. At that time an LRT line was supposed to happen, but the shuttle ended up replacing that due to funds not being available for rail.

Take away the shuttle, and the Feds sue.
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