Atlantic Station Recapitalization and Repositioning (Atlanta, Lenox: coupon, tenants, movie theater)
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1) The internet does make people more courageous including me...
Yeah right--you just proved their point 100%.
And really, this was a semi-decent and semi-positive thread you started about how to improve Atlantic Station. Unfortunately, you lost all credibility with your last post. And that's too bad.
Last edited by aries4118; 02-26-2011 at 12:25 PM..
...art lovers...perhaps quieter,drive Priuses, dog lovers, park goers, etc etc. I fit way more in the latter crowd...Go to Piedmont Park or Virginia Highlands or White Provisions of Midtown...
Alright, I just went over there tonight and this place is not overrun with thugs and hooligans like you guys say. This site makes me sick. You guys must of saw a young black person and got scared ****less. This place had all kinds of normal people and cops walking and doing their thing and no "Waka Flockas" running around like this site would make you think.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MikeandIke27
I was there working out in the gym today and I was waiting to be robbed and shot at.. I wanted to see all the sketchy people get off the shuttle.. a lot people on here over exaggerate things. Atlantic station is not as bad as these bafoons on city data Make it out to be... the only thing I want from.Atlantic station is better retail..
Quote:
Originally Posted by brownhornet
Thats just the way this site works.. a way for people to say things online that they wouldnt say out in a crowd in a million years. It's called internet courage. Most of us that have been here a while pretty much already know how it works. Whenever you see "ghetto" it means black people, same with sketchy, hood, etc. Nevermind the fact that many of the "ghetto" people they speak of live a lot better than they do. Its generally the same few though so after a while youll learn to just look over their posts.
Quote:
Originally Posted by atlyoungin
Sir, what would you prefer the nighttime and weekend crowd could to look like? "Families" are generally in the house by 11:00pm so you're not going to see strollers and soccer moms out at that time. Retail is closed so you're not going to have people shopping at that time. Very few people are looking for meals at that time so there isn't much need for restaurants (unless you want a Waffle House or Ihop and I"m sure that demographic would worry you even more).
If you want AS to operating hours and it closes down at 9:00 pm like a mall, that's pretty much the only way you can change/eradicate the nighttime and weekend crowd.
Seriously, what else is there to do after 11:00/midnight besides go to movies or go to a restaurant/lounge/club?
Quote:
Originally Posted by RandyWatson13
Thank you!!! Its pathetic the way they paint Atlantic Station. It is young and hip and times, that is a good thing! Not everywhere should look like a retirement home!
As stated who stays out late anyway? It is not families? So whats the problem?
Thats just the way this site works.. a way for people to say things online that they wouldnt say out in a crowd in a million years. It's called internet courage. Most of us that have been here a while pretty much already know how it works. Whenever you see "ghetto" it means black people, same with sketchy, hood, etc. Nevermind the fact that many of the "ghetto" people they speak of live a lot better than they do. Its generally the same few though so after a while youll learn to just look over their posts.
And really, this was a semi-decent and semi-positive thread you started about how to improve Atlantic Station. Unfortunately, you lost all credibility with your last post. And that's too bad.
I like you and for the most part respect most of your opinions. You have always been really nice and bring alot to this forum and I greatly appreciate you for it.
I just want to point something out.
If we are to be a diverse city and have an honest conversation about diversity and different social cultures/behaviors I think Jsimm needs to be able to make the points he/she brought up, even if people disagree. There might be some real issues of classism to discuss, but I kind of agree with some of the points brought up.
I feel alot more comfortable going to Stonecrest, than I do some other majority black areas of town. To me it feels like black middle class central.
There is a weird dichotomy when discussing social groups and behavior in society.
Growing up as a white male I was taught a wide array of proper social manners, behaviors, and dress to be, act like, and seem like a respectable individual.
Many people in the black community don't adhere to these social norms/behaviors, however many also do.
Now here is the problem... the catch-22... the social dichotomy
To some extent the racial grouping represent a different and in part separate social culture. I'm often not allowed to expect members of a different social group to have to follow the same social norms I was taught. The social groups have their own uniqueness and style as much as they are also similar in many ways. To me this seems like a root part of Jsimm's comments. He is examining behavior/dress of the social norms he/she expects from others.
However, if the argument is applied I can't expect them to follow my social norms... I do look for them to behave within a context of their own social norms, but given the unfortunate and unfair history of the African-American population... it isn't as well defined as what those norms of behavior are within their own social group.
How much should they be expect (and many do) to pick up social norms of other groups to come off as respectable people as I taught? How much do they have their own social norms for the same thing? How much do I need to not expect them to follow my social norms, but carry on their own?
I'm not writing this making any real arguments on the matter, but merely trying to point out this weird, awkward dichotomy we have in our society.
To put this in real/direct context... If I am in a situation where there are alot black young men wearing really baggy pants, underwear showing, butt hanging out, their social behavior isn't necessarily criminal/wrong, but they are being louder than the other people around them.
With the social norms I grew up with and was taught... this is not allowed and indications of people being disrespectful. It is rude to be the really loud ones in an area and is comes off as obnoxious. The same problems exists with other people too (bored teens in a mall). The key point is they are acting with an array of behaviors I was taught is wrong and obnoxious.
What answer is not clear cut and everyone struggles with whether they want to admit it or not.... or discuss it or not.
To what extent is it unfair for me to feel this way, because I have to accept the fact they are apart of another social group with different norms and within the context of those norms they are not being disrespectful? To what extent are those individuals not following social norms of their own social group and being disrespectful? To what extent do my social norms need to adjust at meeting/respecting their social norms? and/or to what extent do their social norms need to adjust at meeting/respecting my social norms?
To me these are the key questions on the matter. It is often hard to discuss. It is often a touchy subject. It is also extremely hard to discuss without talking about stereotypes, truth in stereotypes, and problems with stereotype perceptions. (ie it is too easy to say I am stereotyping in my above description.... just as it is too easy for me to say those links you just posted are stereotyping as well.)
But if we want to live in a world where race exists, we get along, and still enjoying being in the same places together... These are the questions that need to be hammered out... if not socially negotiated (without it being said).
To me the long term answers can't be in trying to encourage access to some, while cutting access off to others, but that doesn't mean we can't address these issues. These are the root questions whether or not someone is racists, isn't racists, is reverse racists, is a normal person (whatever it might be to who is reading this), or a normal person with too many stereotyped influences, or is a normal misunderstood person.
Thats just the way this site works.. a way for people to say things online that they wouldnt say out in a crowd in a million years. It's called internet courage. Most of us that have been here a while pretty much already know how it works. Whenever you see "ghetto" it means black people, same with sketchy, hood, etc. Nevermind the fact that many of the "ghetto" people they speak of live a lot better than they do. Its generally the same few though so after a while youll learn to just look over their posts.
I want to build on this point in the context with that I just posted... and how I chose to post it.
Being able to take time thinking, process, and write something down carefully....instead of speaking it... gives me the ability to think about my arguments more carefully, not misspeak, and even have some self-humility for myself of why these situations exists (admitting I grew up with and expect certain social norms from others).
When most people speak ... it is speaking from the hip. They don't have the time to do it, therefore they ignore the subject or conversation.
No one forces you to get on the internet. And you are prime example of these people you speak of.
The difference is ill say everything online that I say TO YOUR FACE. I'd bet the odds 10 times out of 10 you wouldnt do the same. So lets just call a spade a spade. And i'd be more than happy to prove my point, but of course then you'll just deflect by throwing out the "thug" yadda yadda yadda so just carry on with just being the internet "I dont like black people" guy and leave it that way. It'd be in your best interest.
I want to build on this point in the context with that I just posted... and how I chose to post it.
Being able to take time thinking, process, and write something down carefully....instead of speaking it... gives me the ability to think about my arguments more carefully, not misspeak, and even have some self-humility for myself of why these situations exists (admitting I grew up with and expect certain social norms from others).
When most people speak ... it is speaking from the hip. They don't have the time to do it, therefore they ignore the subject or conversation.
Thats fine, I was speaking more on people like Mr. Cobaine thats probably one of those people that run across the street and grab their man purses when they see "sketchy" people out in the street. Then run home to make a post about it instead of saying something out in public. THOSE are the internet superheros.
Back to my $0.02. Great comments on here guys. Here is what I agree with:
-People want to live car free and because MARTA does not run trains to AS, a shuttle is necessary. What I disagree with is that it must run to Art Center Station. Do what Tech does and run it to actual points that people need to go to, i.e. the schools, Peachtree St, etc etc. Residents of AS should ride free and everyone else should pay a buck. A breeze card could be used to pay the extra dollar, but should be used for a free ride.
-I agree that people who travel in from other areas to dine/drink at AS at night on the weekends are probably affluent (how they got their money, I don't need to know). They drive Jaguars and have rims after all What I disagree with is why the focus is on attracting these people. More on this below.
Here is where I have to digress with many people on here (well the more recent posts):
1) The internet does make people more courageous including me, but I have been to a few meetings regarding AS (my company does own the place now) and I have heard in public blacks and whites speaking out about the current situation at AS. Granted, the blacks speaking out are women, professional women. They "feel" unsafe, too.
2) The focus has been on Play, not Live. The poster who works in AS now who said there should be more "Play" should specify what kind of play he means. The residents are left out of the Play equation currently and take a back seat to tourists and people who come to AS from far out reaches of Atlanta. Play should focus on daytime tourists and actual residents of AS, and nearby intown residents. Not people who live more than 3 miles away.
3) Whether actual crime is a real problem or not (it certainly is in Homepark and 12 as has been mentioned), it is a huuugggggeeeee perception. Perception matters most. I am going to be "internet courageous" and discuss race here, so bite it. Not everyone in AS, Midtown, West Midtown, and other intown areas is a hip, urban, young black male with flashy cars, a loud demeanor, skimpy women hanging all over him, etc etc. In fact, most people of all colors are 8-6 workers in the week, art lovers, gay, perhaps quieter, drive Priuses, dog lovers, park goers, etc etc. I fit way more in the latter crowd and the loud, hip, urban crowd scares me at times. It's a gang of young black males that assaulted me at Art Center one night. It's young black males commiting 90+% of the crimes in the area, etc etc. There is a reason people are turned off by it, including plenty of other blacks.
-"City" does not have to equal loud and obnoxious. I love how the city equals diversity, which is why I live in Midtown within view of AS in one of the most diverse buildings, but there is some diversity I can do without. I can do without the rapper who lives above me and beats women every night. I can do without the thugs travelling in from poor areas and committing crimes, though that's a fact of life in many urban areas. I can do without the rednecks travelling in and beating up gay people. Etc etc. I like diversity, but I also like a bit of refinement. I don't mind the sirens, the traffic, the higher cost of living, etc, but as I would mind it in Bismarck, ND I do mind criminals, loud and uncouth people, and people who have disregard for people unlike themselves (well, I gues I have disregard for racist thugs, racist rednecks, women beaters, and generally uncouth people). These urban black males have little regard for women (how they get all of these hot women is beyond me, those women are idiots!), have little regard for those around them, and they need to grow up.
Atlanta is not just a black city, and black does not have to mean "urban", hip, flashy, loud, and obnoxious. I hate it when whites or anyone acts in that way or carries that kind of demeanor too, but I don't think loud, flashy, and obnoxious conjures up an image of your average intown resident. Go to Piedmont Park or Virginia Highlands or White Provisions to see who is living within a couple miles of AS. Totally different crowds than one finds at AS. The crowds in those places are still very diverse, just a little more refined AS is like one giant Opera or Life nowadays with quite frequently an even louder/sketchier crowd (Opera, a Midtown club where not a lot of Midtown residents go and people drive in from the furthest reaches).
Oh please. No one wants it to be a retirement home and you know it. People don't want to be shot. It's really a very simple concept. You could see that if it wasn't for your racial inferiority complex.
Oh shut up. You are the one who started this mess to begin with with your silly opinions and views.
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