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Old 01-23-2014, 08:02 AM
 
Location: Atlanta, Birmingham, Charlotte, and Raleigh
2,580 posts, read 1,843,343 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marsha33 View Post
I agree and parents who didn't excel in school also have a hard time helping their children to do so. Most of the posters in here don't really want the kids to excel. They're using all kinds of code words and phrases and comparing all blacks to what's going on in parts of Clayton County. They're not willing to admit that tutoring centers are in certain areas where surprise surprise the test scores are higher and school rankings are much better. Instead, we hear the same old "those parents are lousy." Granted lower class parents can't afford private tutors but that is something that many middle to upper middle class blacks can either afford or budget for.
Interesting statement. Additional evidence, all of the Sylvan Learning Center locations are all in the following areas: Hiram, Smyrna, Norcross, Austell, Snellville, Suwanee, and Toco Hills.
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Old 01-23-2014, 08:04 AM
 
Location: Ono Island, Orange Beach, AL
10,347 posts, read 10,306,970 times
Reputation: 6187
Very good opinion piece in today's AJC directly on topic.
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Old 01-23-2014, 08:05 AM
 
16,222 posts, read 8,896,065 times
Reputation: 8383
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marsha33 View Post
And those areas are also home to the schools with the highest test scores. Having money at their disposal for extra help puts those children at an advantage over children whose parents either can't afford tutoring or think it's not necessary. And from the looks of this thread those parents take their children to tutoring but then deny ever going. Not one person here has even admitted to taking a prep class for the SAT, MCAT, GRE or law exam. Come on now! Children are tested now much more than before and those scores are used to evaluate the schools. Of course children need test prep too. All of us aren't falling for the okey dokie.
I agree with this and do feel that test prep, especially for SAT and ACT for kids does make a difference. I got an excellent ACT score in high school and I do feel it was because I took a test prep course. At my high school every student was advised to do test prep who were interested in going to college and due to me being low income, I got to get a free course that was of high caliber due to being in the TAG-AP/Honors program. I don't think I would have done so well without it.

Recently, I did take a VERY expensive course in order to get GMAT preparation and did very well on that too. I know for a fact that I would not have done well without the test prep for GMAT and practically everyone in my class was white, Asian, and Indian. Practically all of the people who go to top business schools get test prep and Indians in particular online and here in metro Atlanta are very knowledgeable about the best test prep companies/centers and they also use consulting services to help/do their essays and applications for top business schools. I have not decided if I will go that route myself as it cost upwards of $10K for a good consultant.

For those of you who don't think that test prep or consultants makes a difference, you are kidding yourself (many parents now a days also hire educational consultants for their teens for the college application process). Other things that make a difference is the summer drag and the fact that higher income families have the money to send their kids to fun, academic camps that keep them learning over the summer and lessen the effects of summer vacation. I was also lucky in that in my hometown, due to my TAG distinction, I got a lot of free camps as a kid. I went to a mathlete camp, a "logic" camp (where I won top prize for being "highly logical" lol), various science camps, environmental camp (where we had to do research and presentations regarding various waste disposal techniques. We also debated with each other for the various techniques, I had to advocate for the use of incinerators even though I didn't believe that incineration was the best technique for waste disposal, but my team won that debate so we were taught a lot of debate/arguing skills), multi-media camps where we created commercials from planning through filming and acting, theater camps, band camps, writing workshops, and other camps that I went to two local universities in and near my hometown and at Ohio University and Ohio State where I got to stay on campus in the summer for 4 weeks at a time. So I got a whole lot of enrichment that other kids did not get. My own kids get a lot of enrichment because I have the money to send them to these types of programs and I do feel they make a difference. I actually send my son to Ohio where they have more affordable camps nearly every summer. He has also done a lot of the STEM programs at GA Tech and he is into art so does a lot of fine arts lessons and camps in the summer. I recently re-read "The Outliers" where Malcolm Gladwell speaks on this very subject. For those of you who haven't read it, you should check it out.
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Old 01-23-2014, 08:27 AM
 
Location: Wandering in the Dothraki sea
1,380 posts, read 1,367,234 times
Reputation: 3289
Quote:
Originally Posted by jero23 View Post
The problem is widespread poverty not the existence of black people. Otherwise, you would see that there are majority white and highly impoverish school districts in rural counties suffer from the same problems as well. This isn't just unique to Atlanta nor Georgia, but across the South.
You're right, it's largely a socio-economic issue that we see in impoverished communities of all colors. people in general need to parent better.
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Old 01-23-2014, 10:53 AM
 
Location: Ono Island, Orange Beach, AL
10,347 posts, read 10,306,970 times
Reputation: 6187
Quote:
Originally Posted by residinghere2007 View Post
For those of you who don't think that test prep or consultants makes a difference, you are kidding yourself .
I don't believe anyone has written that it does not make a difference. I believe, however, that many folks have said consistent involvement by caring parents in their children's education is likely the most important factor in educational success. Now, when it comes to taking the GMAT and SAT and the like, then, yes - those are older folks who have hopefully been properly raised academically speaking by the time they take those tests. Certainly, you would have to admit that mom and dad are not going to be much help in preparing for the GMAT but can be huge contributors when preparing for the earlier years curriculum in K-12.
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Old 01-23-2014, 12:19 PM
 
16,222 posts, read 8,896,065 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AnsleyPark View Post
I don't believe anyone has written that it does not make a difference. I believe, however, that many folks have said consistent involvement by caring parents in their children's education is likely the most important factor in educational success. Now, when it comes to taking the GMAT and SAT and the like, then, yes - those are older folks who have hopefully been properly raised academically speaking by the time they take those tests. Certainly, you would have to admit that mom and dad are not going to be much help in preparing for the GMAT but can be huge contributors when preparing for the earlier years curriculum in K-12.
I actually don't believe that parents have that much contribution to children passing standardized tests. I think it has to do with the schools themselves and with private tutoring as was mentioned. Now the kids getting homework done and reading on level, I do feel has to do with parents, but on the whole, people associate "academic achievement" with test results. You can see the many updates on this very forum in regards to SAT scores and ratings of schools (which are only based on test scores) as evidence of this.

Most teenagers do not have mom and dad sit down with them at the table and help them study Calculus because most adults don't know how to do calculus (they forget, like I did, which is why I needed test prep, I even forgot how to add fractions when the denominators are different even though I remembered how to multiply them lol, but I use excel to figure out stuff for me and forgot how to do simple math computations even though I was in AP Calculus in high school, no one in my family helped me with it either). Most teens don't have moms/dad's actively help them with homework either. What they do have, those that achieve at higher levels in class and on tests are parents with the funds to send kids to programs to boost their retention of information and to tutors to help their kid with Calculus, like a PP mentioned in regards to outsourcing things they can't or don't want to do with their kids. What you and others see as "outsourcing" is actually a boost to the achievement of those kids.

In regards to "involvement" what exactly does that constitute? It seems you just mean a general positive attitude toward education. As someone who does live in a poverty stricken neighborhood and I interact frequently with my community as I volunteer and am a member of various community groups and I especially am involved with the youth in our community, I know for a fact that the majority of the poor parents in my neighborhood have a positive view towards education, they want their kids to do well in school, they send their kids to school everyday, have them do homework, and do various things they feel will help their kids do well in school. It is rare that you have a child who has a parent/guardian who doesn't care about their kids' education, but many poor people have low rates of academic achievement themselves, and as I mentioned earlier, they don't know how to advocate for their kids and they don't have the time to volunteer on the PTA committees. Many of them do not feel that teachers/administrators have their children's best interest at heart. They are not provided up to date information in regards to their child's academic progress other than report cards. They don't know how to reach out to teachers/administrators and when they do they feel they are not listened to.

Like I said, my mom was not up at my school everyday. She did read to me until I could read by myself. I read by myself when I was 3 and I don't even remember her reading to me but I have been told that she did. She didn't do anything other than get me dressed for school and get me there on time (which included putting 5 year old me and my 6 year old brother on a city bus and praying we would catch our next bus on time). All except one of my siblings did well in school and graduated with above average grades. The one who didn't has learning disabilities and my mom did all she could to try to get him additional help but because he was not "disruptive" he was not referred for screenings that may have helped him get additional services. He has since been diagnosed with ADHD- Inattentive Type and has a GED and is in college now. So with 4 kids and not being all that involved, I don't think she did all that bad.
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Old 01-24-2014, 04:09 PM
 
6,610 posts, read 7,464,080 times
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It isn't about parents actually "teaching" their children, but about exposure and interaction. Teachers and schools have no control over how much kids are exposed to outside of school, and those with more exposure/interaction are going score better on standardized tests.

I think most people understand how important parental involvement is and we don't need it explained to us...and I can guarantee you that the majority of teachers DO have their students' best interests at heart. That's why we became teachers.
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Old 01-24-2014, 06:40 PM
 
125 posts, read 204,505 times
Reputation: 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by jero23 View Post
Interesting statement. Additional evidence, all of the Sylvan Learning Center locations are all in the following areas: Hiram, Smyrna, Norcross, Austell, Snellville, Suwanee, and Toco Hills.
Sylvan is in Cumming and also Omega Learning Center, Huntington Learning Center, Aloha Mind Math, Kumon of South Cumming, Kumon of Cumming-East, Kumon of Cumming-Vickery & Mathnasium of South Forsyth in Suwanee.
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Old 01-24-2014, 06:58 PM
 
125 posts, read 204,505 times
Reputation: 43
Quote:
Originally Posted by residinghere2007 View Post
I agree with this and do feel that test prep, especially for SAT and ACT for kids does make a difference. I got an excellent ACT score in high school and I do feel it was because I took a test prep course. At my high school every student was advised to do test prep who were interested in going to college and due to me being low income, I got to get a free course that was of high caliber due to being in the TAG-AP/Honors program. I don't think I would have done so well without it.

Recently, I did take a VERY expensive course in order to get GMAT preparation and did very well on that too. I know for a fact that I would not have done well without the test prep for GMAT and practically everyone in my class was white, Asian, and Indian. Practically all of the people who go to top business schools get test prep and Indians in particular online and here in metro Atlanta are very knowledgeable about the best test prep companies/centers and they also use consulting services to help/do their essays and applications for top business schools. I have not decided if I will go that route myself as it cost upwards of $10K for a good consultant.

For those of you who don't think that test prep or consultants makes a difference, you are kidding yourself (many parents now a days also hire educational consultants for their teens for the college application process). Other things that make a difference is the summer drag and the fact that higher income families have the money to send their kids to fun, academic camps that keep them learning over the summer and lessen the effects of summer vacation. I was also lucky in that in my hometown, due to my TAG distinction, I got a lot of free camps as a kid. I went to a mathlete camp, a "logic" camp (where I won top prize for being "highly logical" lol), various science camps, environmental camp (where we had to do research and presentations regarding various waste disposal techniques. We also debated with each other for the various techniques, I had to advocate for the use of incinerators even though I didn't believe that incineration was the best technique for waste disposal, but my team won that debate so we were taught a lot of debate/arguing skills), multi-media camps where we created commercials from planning through filming and acting, theater camps, band camps, writing workshops, and other camps that I went to two local universities in and near my hometown and at Ohio University and Ohio State where I got to stay on campus in the summer for 4 weeks at a time. So I got a whole lot of enrichment that other kids did not get. My own kids get a lot of enrichment because I have the money to send them to these types of programs and I do feel they make a difference. I actually send my son to Ohio where they have more affordable camps nearly every summer. He has also done a lot of the STEM programs at GA Tech and he is into art so does a lot of fine arts lessons and camps in the summer. I recently re-read "The Outliers" where Malcolm Gladwell speaks on this very subject. For those of you who haven't read it, you should check it out.
ITA. The enrichment programs go beyond just tutoring. That's an innovative idea you have about sending your kids to another state for more affordable camps. I will look for that book. People going to the extent of using consultants to write their essays means there are people being accepted under false pretenses. A seasoned consultant is going to write better than a high school senior. We're really headed for the same level of competition that exists in Asian countries. I think all parents have to know school isn't what it used to be.
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Old 01-24-2014, 07:01 PM
 
6,610 posts, read 7,464,080 times
Reputation: 4141
Quote:
Originally Posted by Marsha33 View Post
ITA. The enrichment programs go beyond just tutoring. That's an innovative idea you have about sending your kids to another state for more affordable camps. I will look for that book. People going to the extent of using consultants to write their essays means there are people being accepted under false pretenses. A seasoned consultant is going to write better than a high school senior. We're really headed for the same level of competition that exists in Asian countries. I think all parents have to know school isn't what it used to be.
Schools have known for many years that parents aren't what they used to be...

The schools are probably better than they used to be. Teachers are better trained and there are many more resources than in the past. I would hate to think that schools would go back to the way they were when I was student. The biggest difference between now and then is found at home.
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