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Old 03-20-2011, 07:02 PM
 
7,112 posts, read 8,369,255 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RainyRainyDay View Post
Maybe the money would be a net gain, after all.

Apart from that, I did actually understand about the rankings. I was just trying to point out that I think this attitude is deplorable. Wanting to do whatever gives a higher ranking for the sake of a higher ranking ...! A university is good if it has good teaching and research, not because it changed some practices to fit some silly numerical weighting scheme invented by a magazine.
I absolutely agree. But this and another post about UGA clearly shows that these rankings really do influence people's perceptions of who is better than who. I know a lot of students who were swayed to come to Georgia Tech from out of state because of its ranking. They actually payed those huge out-of-state costs rather than going to their own in-state engineering school. I knew a kid from California who scored a 1600 on his SAT who came to Tech (He was turned down by MIT and Harvard as you have to get past the interview) And foreign students also use these rankings in choosing their school.

Schools have to jump through the US News hoops. Although I think one way to tell if a school is good or not is if it flaunts its good rankings. Georgia Tech is in your face with their numbers as if they are insecure about their programs. And apparently even its alumni will spread the word. Emory does it too. I don't think Harvard, Yale, Princeton or Stanford put links on their homepage to tout their latest US News rankings. I looked at UGA and couldn't find any rankings news on their homepage but was disappointed as UGA's Terry Business school did have the US News hot links to their rankings. So I guess you haven't arrived as a true elite institution until you can ignore where the US News rankings place you.
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Old 03-20-2011, 09:11 PM
 
13,594 posts, read 22,044,925 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RainyRainyDay View Post
...I was just trying to point out that I think this attitude is deplorable. Wanting to do whatever gives a higher ranking for the sake of a higher ranking ...! A university is good if it has good teaching and research, not because it changed some practices to fit some silly numerical weighting scheme invented by a magazine.
Hear, hear! Hear, hear!
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Old 03-20-2011, 09:41 PM
 
13,594 posts, read 22,044,925 times
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mrpanda--

You gon' love yourself some of this:

American universities top reputation rankings - Find the top 100 worldwide | News | guardian.co.uk


Enjoy!
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Old 03-20-2011, 11:49 PM
 
Location: Atlanta
6,562 posts, read 7,678,624 times
Reputation: 4368
Quote:
Originally Posted by RainyRainyDay View Post
Maybe the money would be a net gain, after all.

Apart from that, I did actually understand about the rankings. I was just trying to point out that I think this attitude is deplorable. Wanting to do whatever gives a higher ranking for the sake of a higher ranking ...! A university is good if it has good teaching and research, not because it changed some practices to fit some silly numerical weighting scheme invented by a magazine.
Your point is well made, but... there is likely to be a big a correlation between subjective measures of quality in teaching/research and firm numerical indicators of potential student demand (acceptance rate, SAT avg, high school GPA, etc..).

The original reason people starting examining acceptance rates wasn't for or because of Newsweek, etc..

It was merely just one of several possible measures that shows a demand from more potential students....with the assumption that demand is driven by a perception of acknowledgment of quality.

Now, admittedly, there is no doubt the press and magazines frequently bastardized research to attract readers, which in hand causes public perception problems. But, for the universities the purpose is targeted at measuring student demand in their school.

When they want those numbers to change...they want them to change because more students want to go there, because more people believe it is a great school.
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Old 03-20-2011, 11:57 PM
 
1,020 posts, read 2,259,618 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrpanda View Post
#3 Georgia Tech's positioning as just a engineering/science school wouldn't do much to beat out Michigan, Virginia, and UNC. To be fair in comparison if you were to compare SAT scores among the just the engineering & business majors at U of Illinois, UCLA, Berkeley, Michigan, and Virginia, the average SAT/GPA would be higher than Georgia Tech. I know that this will never happen, but if UGA and Georgia Tech were to become one university... i think it would have a better shot for the #3-5 spot. Still it is impressive to see Georgia Tech to tie in #6 with UC San Diego. An elite applicant looking to major in engineering or business at a top institution who also seeks a nice social life (Greek system, dating, etc) would prefer to attend UCLA, Berkeley, Michigan, or University of Illinois over Georgia Tech.

#4 Do you percieve California as the Hispanic Mecca the same way you view Georgia as a black mecca? Did you konw that California is made up of 57% white and 37% hispanic whereas Georgia is made up of 59% white and 30% black. Similar isn't it?

Sure I do believe the more Asians, the more competitive the school gets with its reputation. One example is Northview High School. Northview is a public high school in North Fulton that consistently has the highest SAT scores and Asian demographic of 34%, the highest in any public high school in Georgia. Northview also sends the highest number of students to Georgia Tech than any other public high school in Georgia. So, yes... the more Georgia Tech becomes an Asian magnet school like UCLA and Berkeley, the more competitive and desirable the school will be. (which means more applicants) I mentioned with before.. 65/35 male/female ratio is not what i call a great social life for the average college student. Georgia Tech will not be able to compete with UCLA and Berkeley in this area.

Source: I ran into two Georgia Tech students while looking for a new Canon Camera lens at a Best Buy near Gwinnett Place Mall... What i mentioned above was their biggest complaint though they did admit that the academics of GT was top notch.

These guys did give me a heck of deal on that lens by price matching with Amazon

Who said anything about social life? That has NO STANDING in USNWR rankings. We're talking sheer academic quality. If you want to argue that a better social life (i.e. guys being able to hook up with girls in this case) will lead to better applicants, fine. But, may I remind you that the campus is right in the middle of Midtown with Downtown to the south? It's not like there is a dearth of social opportunity at the school, you just have to leave campus if you want to screw around.

Also, if GT combined with UGA, GT rankings would LOWER as SAT scores would drop, causing a decrease in total USNWR score as well as peer review score since there would be conflicting reviews of both schools.

Also, Asian population IS NOT considered a factor in USNWR nor does it necessarily mean better quality/more competitive school . An increased Asian pop will do nothing for USNWR ranking. Look at any community college, and you will see a high proportion of Asians there, as well, yet I wouldn't say they're competitive.

That said, take USNWR with a grain of salt. A point-by-point ranking is impossible, but it becomes useful to say "top 10" or "top 50" or "top 100" or Tier I,II,III, etc.. The top 10 publics are all good choices, no matter what, and I don't think an employer will say "well, you only went to GT which was ranked #6 public. This guy went to Berkeley which is #1. Therefore, we're going with him."
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Old 03-21-2011, 12:01 AM
 
1,020 posts, read 2,259,618 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kirkwoodhipster View Post
People! This isnt the 1990s! Update your perceptions of Atlanta to match 2011!

The census numbers have confirmed what we knew all along: Atlanta is now THE Asian mecca. It has the fastest-growing Asian population in the nation. It's growth exceeds 100%, far surpassing the black and white percentage growth.
Yeah so? The Asian population was small, so exceeding 100% growth isn't hard. Atlanta, though, has a HUGE, established black populace that continues to grow as a percentage of population and is still regarded as a black mecca . So, my perception of Atlanta is still in line with 2011.
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Old 03-21-2011, 12:07 AM
 
1,020 posts, read 2,259,618 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MathmanMathman View Post
I agree. I don't think we have a shortage of lawyers and Emory and, believe it or not, Georgia State are good law schools. Actually lawyers do a lot of good making deals possible, creating contracts, and taking care of the inevitable legal issues (e.g. patents) bringing products to market. They are not all ambulance chasers.

Tech having a law school would only serve GT's purposes. Georgia State is targeting business law so GSU can cover the need for any aspiring Tech MBA. It was about 20 years ago that GT was thinking of having a Med School to bring engineering to medicine, but they instead teamed up with Emory which seems to be the better idea.



I suppose GT can rise higher in the rankings but the Regents have been pressuring them to accept more in-state people since that was GT's original mission. With UGA and Georgia Southern now getting into engineering, maybe that'll free GT to pursue a super elite status.

But I must admit that I don't know if these ranking mean much other than the faculty are good. That doesn't mean they are good instructors for the students. Professors are too busy with their research to worry about the classroom. Their careers depend on publishing and winning grants.

I recall someone at Emory saying of Tech that "they have the attitude that they can do everything better". I can see some advantage with that attitude but GT people must be really bad team players.
We're not bad team players. Actually, for a few months on our first job, we have crippling anxiety and under-confidence due to the reeming we get at Tech, so we delegate more things to coworkers. After a while, we realize we're the **** and become managers...
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Old 03-21-2011, 06:46 AM
 
Location: Atlanta,GA
2,672 posts, read 5,553,771 times
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Senseless post. But, I just had to reply (just for kicks).

Quote:
Originally Posted by mrpanda View Post
School Acceptance rate SAT (25-75%)
#1 UC Berkeley 22% 1230-1470
#2 UCLA 22% 1170-1410
#3 University of Virginia 32% 1230-1440
#4 University of Michigan 50% 27-31
#5 U of North Carolina Chapel Hill 32% 1210-1410
#6 Georgia Tech 59% 1230-1430

What does Georgia Tech have to do to become the #3rd best public university in the nation? Is it possible that Georgia Tech can beat out UNC, Michigan, and Virginia?

Here are couple of things i've observed about Georgia Tech.
#1 the test scores/GPA is in par with Berkeley & UCLA which is quite impressive as it shows me that the caliber of students of GT are top-notch, however the acceptance rate is a bit at high 59%.I'd like to see applicants rise from 13k to 21k to bring down the acceptance rate to around 30%. (WHY? Who cares? What's it to you?) All the other top 5 institutions have around 25k to 33k applicants every year, where Georgia Tech as has only 13k.Anyone know why this is? (Who cares? No one cares why this is! People go where they want!)

#2 Georgia Tech is the only school among the top 6 without a Law School? (AND???) All the other top #6 public institutions have a highly ranked Law and Business schools except for GT. Any chance that Georgia Tech will have a law school with its new MBA program any time soon? (Why? Are you planning on applying?)

#3 Georgia Tech is the only school among the top 6 to have a male / female ratio of 65/35. The other top five are more like 50/50. Perhaps that is why there is only 13k applicants applying instead of 21k. Though academics is a priority for many college students, a good social life and dating scene is just as important. It would be nice to see more women get accepted to Georgia Tech in the coming years.

#4 Right now Georgia Tech's Asian % is around 17%.I'd like to see that Asian number around 22-25%. (Again, why? What's it to you? Why is it important?...You're losing your audience with these geeky wishes...)...You want to see these numbers? Become an Asian recruiter for GT.
UCLA - white 38% Asian 38% Black 4% hispanic 15%
Berkeley white 38% Asian 40% Black 2% hispanic 14%
Georgia Tech white 66% Asian 17% Black 6% hispanic 4%

Georgia Tech still doesn't have that brand recognition like "Louis Vitton" among the top Asian applicants like UCLA and Berkeley does. (So, the **** What!! Doesn't Louis make bags???Who cares?) Perhaps Georgia Tech will be that coveted school among the top Asian applicants by 2020. (People still won't care, just like they don't in 2011.) Only time will tell.

Though I don't think Georgia Tech will be able to beat out Berkeley and LA in the next 20 years. I do think that Georgia Tech has the potential for the #3 spot beating out Virginia, Michigan and UNC.
Quote:
Originally Posted by kirkwoodhipster View Post
People! This isnt the 1990s! Update your perceptions of Atlanta to match 2011!

The census numbers have confirmed what we knew all along: Atlanta is now THE Asian mecca. It has the fastest-growing Asian population in the nation. It's growth exceeds 100%, far surpassing the black and white percentage growth.

Pecentage growth in this case means nothing...100% increase is nice and all, but when you're still at 3%, it's still nothing....

If I have $1, and get another dollar....that's a big percentage increase, but I'm still broke....
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Old 03-21-2011, 07:48 AM
 
29,385 posts, read 26,339,390 times
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Tech is another one of our academic treasures. It's really awesome that Atlanta has big hitters like GT, UGA, Emory, AUC and GSU in our metro. (Yeah, I know Athens technically isn't in our metro area but it's only an hour's drive).

You can get a world class education in just about any field here, at an extremely reasonable cost.

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Old 03-21-2011, 08:42 AM
VJP
 
Location: Decatur, GA
658 posts, read 1,447,772 times
Reputation: 537
Disagree vehemently on #2. It's a moot point with the law schools we already have in GA and within close proximity to the state. I just would hate to see my alma mater move away from its core - something it does so well.

#3 is not very important. I was apprehensive about it when I was 17 and arrived on campus, but Atlanta is a big city with plenty of women. Forget about trying to improve that by adding degree programs (they already have STAC and a lot of useless "management" classes), and if recruiting women for engineering doesn't work, so be it.

I don't know why you "would like" to see more asians at the school. Look for other races to start complaining if the number bumps further up - it's not important though.


GT grads are just fine at "team playing" when necessary.
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