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Well, no one is saying throw kids under the bus for minor infractions and "normal" kid stuff. Hell, I threw pinecones at cars. But my character was pretty well developed -- certainly by 17. If a mid teen is committing violent crimes against strangers, he/she is in need of more than just love and understanding and shop class.
And I have to disagree that we "as a society" have any kind of obligation. This is america, land of the individual. Everthing needed to survive and thrive is right here. We as a society dont "owe" a juvenile any more than I have an obligation toward my neighbor when he is short with his rent. If people or church groups or charities want to step in and provide some assistance, its also a free country, and they are welcome to do so. But there is no societal "obligation" in the constitution, other than to allow us all as much freedom as possible until someone starts infringing upon the rights of others.
I said that we have an obligation to ourselves as well...to not turn out any more criminals than is absolutely necessary. And I disagree that we don't "owe" them anything. We have an obligation to raise these children, and that is not only on the parents but on society as a whole. It benefits all of us to follow through with it until they are adults - and that means all-the-way, not almost adults.
I said that we have an obligation to ourselves as well...to not turn out any more criminals than is absolutely necessary. And I disagree that we don't "owe" them anything. We have an obligation to raise these children, and that is not only on the parents but on society as a whole. It benefits all of us to follow through with it until they are adults - and that means all-the-way, not almost adults.
This is where we fundamentally disagree. If you feel an obligation toward your fellow man/woman/child, etc., by all means go for it. But society does not raise children. Parents do. If a kid elects to pass on the free education, free sports activities, free trade school prep, etc., that is offered to everyone, that is on them. Sorry, but bad choices have consequences, even if made at an early age. The whole concept of there being life alterning consequences from bad decision making, even if at an early age, is an idea that has somehow lost favor today.
Regardless, society as a whole is not responsible for ANY one person's bad choices. Sure, society pays a price via criminal activity, but that doesnt mean we have to bear the burder of taking care of that individual too.
This is where we fundamentally disagree. If you feel an obligation toward your fellow man/woman/child, etc., by all means go for it. But society does not raise children. Parents do. If a kid elects to pass on the free education, free sports activities, free trade school prep, etc., that is offered to everyone, that is on them. Sorry, but bad choices have consequences, even if made at an early age. The whole concept of there being life alterning consequences from bad decision making, even if at an early age, is an idea that has somehow lost favor today.
Regardless, society as a whole is not responsible for ANY one person's bad choices. Sure, society pays a price via criminal activity, but that doesnt mean we have to bear the burder of taking care of that individual too.
We aren't talking about people...we're talking about children. I don't for a second think that society is responsible for adults and their choices, but we are obligated to children - hence schools, community clubs and sports, social services, and countless group and individual attempts to help guide children who might otherwise have no guidance at all. We absolutely are obligated due to their lack of mature abilities to make decisions and support/take care of themselves.
If you don't agree with this that's okay - not everyone contributes. But this is often the burden of our society because there are so many irresponsible parents.
This is where we fundamentally disagree. If you feel an obligation toward your fellow man/woman/child, etc., by all means go for it. But society does not raise children. Parents do. If a kid elects to pass on the free education, free sports activities, free trade school prep, etc., that is offered to everyone, that is on them. Sorry, but bad choices have consequences, even if made at an early age. The whole concept of there being life alterning consequences from bad decision making, even if at an early age, is an idea that has somehow lost favor today.
Regardless, society as a whole is not responsible for ANY one person's bad choices. Sure, society pays a price via criminal activity, but that doesnt mean we have to bear the burder of taking care of that individual too.
So should a 14 year old prostatitute be put in jail?
So should a 14 year old prostatitute be put in jail?
While I have some sympathy for younger prostitutes, it is probably case by case. For instance, if the female is abusing drugs, spreading disease, and making other bad choices, ie repeat offender, those are complicating factors.
Also, a crime that hurts yourself more than others is one thing. But crimes that are violent toward others, physically and mentally, can simply not be excused or written off as youthful hijinks. Threse must be punished. Property theft is also not excusable.
Look, the notion of getting youthful offenders off the wrong track is fine. But they have already rejected 'regular society' as a way of life. There is no guarantee, by any means, that such programs will have the intended result.
Also, society simply cannot promote the idea that, hey, if you screw up as a youth, its no problem. You automatically get a do-over! So go ahead, engage in mayhem and abuse of your fellow man. If you get caught there is a cushy rehab waiting for you!
Youths can undergo rehabilitation activities while in jail. Doing so provides the necessary disincentive to criminal activity, protects law-abiding citizens and doesnt place ADDITIONAL financial burdens on taxpayers.
Perhaps most importantly, it also delivers the message, quite clearly, that there are negative consequences for engaging in bad behavior. Kids are smart. If they figure out a way to work the system, they will. When I did something wrong as a child, my parents punished me. Its really that simple. They still loved me, sure. But they also understood that, like Pavolov's dogs, the proper reward and punishment system is key to getting the desired behavior.
While I have some sympathy for younger prostitutes, it is probably case by case. For instance, if the female is abusing drugs, spreading disease, and making other bad choices, ie repeat offender, those are complicating factors.
Also, a crime that hurts yourself more than others is one thing. But crimes that are violent toward others, physically and mentally, can simply not be excused or written off as youthful hijinks. Threse must be punished. Property theft is also not excusable.
Look, the notion of getting youthful offenders off the wrong track is fine. But they have already rejected 'regular society' as a way of life. There is no guarantee, by any means, that such programs will have the intended result.
Also, society simply cannot promote the idea that, hey, if you screw up as a youth, its no problem. You automatically get a do-over! So go ahead, engage in mayhem and abuse of your fellow man. If you get caught there is a cushy rehab waiting for you!
Youths can undergo rehabilitation activities while in jail. Doing so provides the necessary disincentive to criminal activity, protects law-abiding citizens and doesnt place ADDITIONAL financial burdens on taxpayers.
Perhaps most importantly, it also delivers the message, quite clearly, that there are negative consequences for engaging in bad behavior. Kids are smart. If they figure out a way to work the system, they will. When I did something wrong as a child, my parents punished me. Its really that simple. They still loved me, sure. But they also understood that, like Pavolov's dogs, the proper reward and punishment system is key to getting the desired behavior.
I think that is all we are trying to say. You took it as something else.
Also as far as prostitution goes, the notion is that if a young girl can be influenced of forced to sell herself then why on earth is it unheard of for a her to be influenced to steal or hurt other people. I would imagine it be easier emotionally and physically for a young girl to steal then to sell her body to multiple( sometimes at once) and often having to do drugs to handle it for almost nothing, but I guess you think it is all the same.
Did anyone think that it would be anything than young black males? Seriously, people. Any MARTA violence is always attributed to young black males, whether it is assault in the form of robbery, battery, or intimidation.
Of course, pointing out a statistical truth (99% of the time) is too much for some egalitarians to hear. It's time for people just to admit reality and stop acting like children who refuse to hear the truth, complete with hands over ears and shaking their heads, while saying, "I'm not going to listen to this, you hurt my sensibilities. Moderator, Moderator...where are you. I don't like that person saying the truth....whaaaaaaaaah! Do something". You know it's true.
Also, reporters and journalists need to be more responsible. Saying such vague things such as, "they were youths wearing blue jeans and a baseball cap", without listing the race of the perpetrators is doing the victims an injustice, for the greatest characteristic of the suspects is being omitted. Time is of the essence. Political correctness in such a manner is downright shameful and a disservice to the victims. Truth!
I think that is all we are trying to say. You took it as something else.
Also as far as prostitution goes, the notion is that if a young girl can be influenced of forced to sell herself then why on earth is it unheard of for a her to be influenced to steal or hurt other people. I would imagine it be easier emotionally and physically for a young girl to steal then to sell her body to multiple( sometimes at once) and often having to do drugs to handle it for almost nothing, but I guess you think it is all the same.
You were indicating there was no jail time involved. That is why I responded as I did.
People have to take responsibility. This includes making the harder choices. Whether its "easier" or not for a young girl to turn to prostitution rather than other things, ie, staying in school, working at McDonalds for lower wages, I dont know. But life often involves doing things we dont want to do, if only because its the right thing to do. None of us make the right choices ALL the time (who hasnt skipped a workout for the couch?). But one cannot completely excuse individuals for making bad choices -- they must be held accountable.
Lack of personal accountability and responsibility is a plague on the country today. Without it we are doomed to become a nation of parasites and victim-hooders, always pointing the finger at someone else for our failings:
"Its not my fault, they made me do it!"
"Everyone else is doing it, so why not me"
"No one is watching, so its OK"
"Well, this is easier than the other, so I will do it, even though its wrong"
"Society OWES me because I was born. I can take and not give back, simply because Im entitled."
If these become our mantras, it will not end well.
You were indicating there was no jail time involved. That is why I responded as I did.
People have to take responsibility. This includes making the harder choices. Whether its "easier" or not for a young girl to turn to prostitution rather than other things, ie, staying in school, working at McDonalds for lower wages, I dont know. But life often involves doing things we dont want to do, if only because its the right thing to do. None of us make the right choices ALL the time (who hasnt skipped a workout for the couch?). But one cannot completely excuse individuals for making bad choices -- they must be held accountable.
Lack of personal accountability and responsibility is a plague on the country today. Without it we are doomed to become a nation of parasites and victim-hooders, always pointing the finger at someone else for our failings:
"Its not my fault, they made me do it!"
"Everyone else is doing it, so why not me"
"No one is watching, so its OK"
"Well, this is easier than the other, so I will do it, even though its wrong"
"Society OWES me because I was born. I can take and not give back, simply because Im entitled."
If these become our mantras, it will not end well.
You seriously don't know why a 14 year old girl would turn to prostitution for a pimp. If you honestly think they are just being rebels rejecting school and good choices and loving homes then there is no point in even finishing this discussion. I am getting sick talking about it. Maybe one day you will watch a documentary on child prostitution see that it aint about these girls just turning down the "good" life to be slaves to a grown pimp.
Did anyone think that it would be anything than young black males? Seriously, people. Any MARTA violence is always attributed to young black males, whether it is assault in the form of robbery, battery, or intimidation.
Of course, pointing out a statistical truth (99% of the time) is too much for some egalitarians to hear. It's time for people just to admit reality and stop acting like children who refuse to hear the truth, complete with hands over ears and shaking their heads, while saying, "I'm not going to listen to this, you hurt my sensibilities. Moderator, Moderator...where are you. I don't like that person saying the truth....whaaaaaaaaah! Do something". You know it's true.
Also, reporters and journalists need to be more responsible. Saying such vague things such as, "they were youths wearing blue jeans and a baseball cap", without listing the race of the perpetrators is doing the victims an injustice, for the greatest characteristic of the suspects is being omitted. Time is of the essence. Political correctness in such a manner is downright shameful and a disservice to the victims. Truth!
What do you suggest we do to young black males?
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