Buckhead IHOP/Cop vs woman fight (appointed, 2013, salary)

[rcsteiner]

Originally Posted by jp01358

I would much, much rather be punched in the face than pepper sprayed or tazered. Bottom line, assault an officer and all bets are off.

Should that be the case? Surely officers have standards of conduct and engagement that they need to adhere to?

It isn't like she was a physical threat to this officer...

[jp01358]

Originally Posted by rcsteiner

Should that be the case? Surely officers have standards of conduct and engagement that they need to adhere to?

It isn't like she was a physical threat to this officer...

How is she not a threat? She is interfering with an arrest, and then she starts flailing on him.

[oakhurstlauren]

Originally Posted by DeaconJ

I'm not sure how you can know that the women were no threat to the officer or the restaurant patrons. We can assume this is true, but it's not totally off the map for normal-looking people to carry guns. In a situation like this, I'm happy that he took it seriously and didn't just shrug it off as a silly group of drunken women. You never know.

I'm also not sure it's wise to jump to the conclusion that he abused his power. I saw him diffuse a volatile situation that could have escalated, but I guess we'll have to wait for more information to come out.

Well if that's what you saw... In my opinion, he did not diffuse a volatile situation, he escalated it.

[JPD]

Originally Posted by jp01358

How is she not a threat? She is interfering with an arrest, and then she starts flailing on him.

True, and you never know, she could have poisoned the officer by throwing some IHOP food in his mouth.

[rcsteiner]

Originally Posted by jp01358

How is she not a threat? She is interfering with an arrest, and then she starts flailing on him.

Sorry, I was referring to the general statement made. To my mind, "all bets are off" is simply not an acceptable assertion when referring to the conduct of officers of the law. I help pay their salaries ... and if I have my way, they will act within defined parameters.

In this case, tho? Not so cut and dried, perhaps, but it looks to me like she only started flailing after she was pushed/slapped back, and while that may have been justified (and a heated situation complicates things), I'm not sure that was optimal behavior on the part of the officer.

[jp01358]

Originally Posted by rcsteiner

Sorry, I was referring to the general statement made. To my mind, "all bets are off" is simply not an acceptable assertion when referring to the conduct of officers of the law. I help pay their salaries ... and if I have my way, they will act within defined parameters.

In this case, tho? Not so cut and dried, perhaps, but it looks to me like she only started flailing after she was pushed/slapped back, and while that may have been justified (and a heated situation complicates things), I'm not sure that was optimal behavior on the part of the officer.

I never meant to imply that the cop could have done anything at all. All I'm saying is that when you put your hands on an officer and strike him, the officer is perfectly justified in using force. Cops deal with dangerous and dynamic situations daily, and we don't want to shackle them too much. If you think this behavior is outside of the acceptable parameters of police behavior, feel free to post a piece of statute or police handbook that deals with the matter. If you interfere with an arrest, the officer is justified in pushing you away. If your dumb drunk a$$ starts flailing at him as a result, he can use physical force to subdue you. Pretty cut and dried.

[rcsteiner]

Originally Posted by jp01358

I never meant to imply that the cop could have done anything at all. All I'm saying is that when you put your hands on an officer and strike him, the officer is perfectly justified in using force. Cops deal with dangerous and dynamic situations daily, and we don't want to shackle them too much. If you think this behavior is outside of the acceptable parameters of police behavior, feel free to post a piece of statute or police handbook that deals with the matter. If you interfere with an arrest, the officer is justified in pushing you away. If your dumb drunk a$$ starts flailing at him as a result, he can use physical force to subdue you. Pretty cut and dried.

Well stated. I agree.

[blkgiraffe]

Thank god this woman was beat! she had already put her hand on his shoulder; god only knows what she could have done next!

[ecuresident]

I agree with a lot of other posters- the cop was justified to some extent. Listen and watch the multiple videos online. The girl must have done something majorly wrong, because like one of the other posters said, I have been to that and many other Ihops, waffle houses, etc at 3 in the morning, and the cops mind their own business unless you are doing something wrong. In the video, the cop asked the girl to get up which she doesnt- instead she starts screaming hysterically, then he tries arresting her, and she resists, while still screaming. Her friend gets involved, and the cop now has a 2 on 1 situation (with potentially more people getting involved as the girl had 2 additional friends watching, plus a packed house of drunk people) so he protects himself. Mase, or tasing could have easily injured other people, and a headlock would have been possible, but it typically can lead to even worse injuries as well as bystanders getting injured, as well as only one girl being subdued. Since there were other officers there, I do think he overreacted, but women can be as dangerous as men, no matter what their weight. Also she didnt get hit too hard, or she wouldnt have kept resisting after he punched her, and probably would have been bleeding and crying after getting arrested, neither of which happened.

[waronxmas]

Welp, the suspense can sort of end. This just got posted to the AJC:


Attorney: Cop used excessive force in IHOP melee *| ajc.com

“It was just four girls, just a regular night out, going to get something to eat,” Cynthia Freeman said.

Freeman said she noticed two guys dressed in costumes from Star Wars.

“Wow, they got the helmet … they’ve got everything, what are you guys doing?” Freeman said she asked early that morning.

Minutes later, she said a man in a blue shirt came over to their table.

“He tells me, shut up, be quiet, you need to leave,” an emotional Freeman said.

According to several videos posted on YouTube.com, the officer, whose name police have not provided, shouted at a woman sitting in the corner of a booth near the door and then he lunged at her. A woman wearing a black dress appeared to be trying to separate the officer and her friend when the officer slapped her. The woman in the black dress hit him back, and he punched her in the face.

Now, I am willing to believe that it wasn't just "a regular night out". They probably just came from the club, had too much to drink, see effing Boba Fett sitting at the booth next to them and start screaming questions to him (haven't we all done that). Then, I imagine, the cop who was working security got annoyed by this and went over to them to tell them to shut up and leave (haven't we all been through that before). After that, thats when things got crazy. Of course we should definitely wait to hear the officers end of the story before believing that course of events, but that seems likely.

As for the woman who was punched, it turns out she was a stranger:

The incident was captured on video, the Atlanta Police Department confirmed. The video also shows the officer punching another woman. Freeman said she didn’t know that woman -- Ashley Leavell -- she had been dining at another table.

“She was trying to get the officer to back off,” Freeman said.

Leavell was charged with obstruction, public drunkeness and simple battery.

So the woman who was punched was, at first at least, trying to do what she thought was the right thing. When it got physical, it is likely that her inebriated state kept her from making the right judgement call of not swinging on the cop (here's a lesson kids, if you are going to get so drunk that you gain the juevos to swing at a cop, just go home. Don't go to IHOP).

That however doesn't absolve the officer whom I assume was sober during the entire course of events. Those so willing to right off his actions as a result of "flared emotions" or a natural reaction need to get real. His job is to be calm in these type of situations every day. If he can not keep his cool around a bunch of drunk people who get rowdy, then he shouldn't be on the beat. As for what happened to the mystery cop:

“The officer involved in the arrest and confrontation with a patron at the IHOP in Buckhead has been placed on administrative duty pending the outcome of an investigation by the department’s Office of Professional Standards. Use of force by police officers is a matter the department takes seriously, and the OPS investigation will determine if the officer acted within established guidelines. Chief Turner has pledged to have the OPS investigation concluded in 10 business days.”

Translation: Dude will be fired after HR gets all of the evidence in order. Unfortunately, this won't be the end of the drama for the APD:

“I looked at his face, I didn’t look at what he had on or anything because everything happened so fast,” Freeman said. “I didn’t know what he was until he pulled out those cuffs.” Freeman said the officer pulled on her hair to the point that some of it came out.

...

Her friend, Roberta Caban, said the officer never identified himself before the incident.

...

"No one would tell us why we were arrested, no one would tell us anything," she added. "And we wind up spending over 24 hours in jail."

No matter how you feel about the actions of the women in this incident, all citizens are guaranteed under the Constitution of the United States to be fully informed of any criminal charges against them and afforded due process under State and Federal law. In this case, that clause would be applied in the form of a officer of the state (which a police officer is) informing them what they are being arrested for and remind them of their basic rights (the so-called Miranda Rights) and that they have the right not to incriminate themselves.

If it is true that the officer at no point informed either woman that they were being arrested and what for, it will have serious criminal consequences in a court of law. They could very easily sue the city/APD for denial of civil rights and violations of their 5th and 6th amendment rights. In other words, it would be a very very bad thing for the city and police department. Let's just hope they are exaggerating their story. Unfortunately, their course of events line up with the video for the most part.