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Old 04-30-2011, 01:48 PM
 
Location: International Spacestation
5,207 posts, read 6,000,919 times
Reputation: 1415

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Quote:
Originally Posted by AcidSnake View Post
I agree wholeheartedly with this post.

As much I like to be pro-black and romanticize on the notion that many of my fellow brothas and sistas are philosophically-intense and willing to entertain heady & cerebral topics in their entertainment choices, the reality is...a significantly large portion of the black community are not.

Maybe it's due to the history of our existence here in the U.S., but a large portion of the black community are working class and that class group in my opinion doesn't care by large to entertain themselves with knowledge intensive topics. Why do I say that, and how do I back that this opinionated assertion up?


Scan this:

1. Malcolm X(1992 version by Spike Lee): Budget-$33,000,000 Gross Revenue: $48,169,910

2. Miracle at St. Anna(Directed by Spike Lee): Budget-$45,000,000 Gross Revenue: $9,290,894 *Note* anybody expecting another war-drama featuring a majority black cast from Hollywood may as well be whistlin' Dixie after looking at the major profit loss from this movie

3. The Great Debaters(Directed by Denzel Washington): Budget- $15,000,000 Gross Revenue:$30,236,407

4. Antwone Fisher(Directed by Denzel Washington): Budget-$12,500,000 Gross Revenue: $23,367,586

5. Daddy's Little Girls(Directed by Tyler Perry): Budget-$10,000,000 Gross Revenue: $31,609,243

6. Why Did I get Married(Directed by Tyler Perry): Budget-$15,000,000 Gross Revenue: $55,862,886

7. Diary of a Mad Black Woman(Directed by Tyler Perry) Budget:$5,500,000 Gross Revenue: $50,652,203

8. Madea Goes To Jail(Directed By Tyler Perry) Budget: $17,500,000 Gross Revenue: $90,508,336


Looking at these movies from budget to Gross revenues for domestic & worldwide viewing, it seems that it's the black men dressing in drag-type of movies that gains the most profit from our black audiences. Y'all can run the numbers yourselves at this website for movies if you don't believe me.

Box Office Mojo

And just to note, I'm not trying to bash the black community here...but the numbers don't lie. Too many of us support lowbrow stuff. That's simply a factor of life.

Even when we are presented with some relatively heady stuff like Antwone Fisher(one of my favorites, it's like the black answer to "Good Will Hunting" starring Matt Damon), far too many of my fellow black people give movies like AF lackluster support at best. Sometimes if you show it, they might not necessarily come.

In my understanding of what Randy said, I would concur that the movie industry is about pure profit(for the most part) at the end of the day. No one likes to take unnecesary risks with their investments and lose money. And again, it's simply the way life is. Most of the black community that pays the major movie-going dollars would rather see slapstick & drag, not philosphy & intense social-political drama.

I dare someone to prove to me otherwise, and with hard numbers & facts, NOT emotionally-charged statements and ad hominem insults.
Damn this is a very solid post. You wont get any arguement from me. You own this thread. Word.
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Old 04-30-2011, 04:04 PM
 
439 posts, read 700,268 times
Reputation: 264
Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyiMetro View Post
Damn this is a very solid post. You wont get any arguement from me. You own this thread. Word.
True. I must say. The Black Community at large is not culturally inclined. I cannot argue with you. I've always been inclined to Spike Lee movies anyway and did not even know his past. I hear Blacks call Spike Lee 'crazy'. Tyler Perry has an enterprise. It may be his style of movies but I do not care for them. He seems to have a need to categorize Blacks as an entire new species. I do not patronize movies that emphasize a divide. But I am supportive of his method, as an enterpreneur that generates jobs and inspire the minorities.
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Old 04-30-2011, 11:44 PM
 
Location: Atlanta
3,472 posts, read 4,136,138 times
Reputation: 2177
Yeah, you would be surprise at what the numbers of the movie box office receipts can infer about a specific demographic of people.

Look at the budget and gross revenue for the movie "How Stella Got Her Groove Back."

Budget:$20,000,000 Gross Revenue:$37,672,350

I remember back in 1998 when the black radio stations like V103 were jumping all up and down about this movie and talking about how every older single black woman should look at it & support the movie so that sistas could feel good about themselves.

Sure, the movie made back its initial investment, and I guess one could call it a box office smash in a relative sense, but...it seems like the audiences would rather turn out in droves to see a black man dress in drag than to see more uplifting movies about black women and black people in general. Why?

If anyone has any explanations, I am all ears.


Quote:
Originally Posted by FlyiMetro View Post
Damn this is a very solid post. You wont get any arguement from me. You own this thread. Word.

Last edited by AcidSnake; 05-01-2011 at 12:02 AM..
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Old 05-01-2011, 01:19 AM
 
Location: Atlanta ,GA
9,086 posts, read 12,930,360 times
Reputation: 2908
Quote:
Originally Posted by AcidSnake View Post
Yeah, you would be surprise at what the numbers of the movie box office receipts can infer about a specific demographic of people.

Look at the budget and gross revenue for the movie "How Stella Got Her Groove Back."

Budget:$20,000,000 Gross Revenue:$37,672,350

I remember back in 1998 when the black radio stations like V103 were jumping all up and down about this movie and talking about how every older single black woman should look at it & support the movie so that sistas could feel good about themselves.

Sure, the movie made back its initial investment, and I guess one could call it a box office smash in a relative sense, but...it seems like the audiences would rather turn out in droves to see a black man dress in drag than to see more uplifting movies about black women and black people in general. Why?

If anyone has any explanations, I am all ears.
I dont believe black people are any less inclined to watch more lowbrow stuff than other groups.If Jackass can open at #1 and white people flocking to see it ,then why should black people be any better?

I think deep down inside we stll have issues about what the "white man thinks of us".We try so hard to separate ourselves from the less than "cultured" blacks that are many times in our own extended family.

A lot of times the cast is not al black or even that the main character is black,but blacks flock to those too.Take the XMEN,IronMAN, Schwarzenegger and Stallone movies.
What about "Ray"? The Color Purple?How many black people do you know have NEVER seen the Color Purple?Waiting to Exhale?OMG!Precious?

It also has to do with class and demogrphics.A 18-35y/o white male is not going to go see Sex In the City.

Think of it lke this:
Music
Black people Musci Genres:
Hip Hop
R&B
Neo-Soul-black hippies."enlightened" bro's and sis
Jazz(Your dad)
Gospel(Kirk Franklin,Byron Cage)
Blues-Your Granddad
House-See Neo Soul

White People Music:
Country the same as R&B
Heavy Metal-White males under 40
Alternative Rock-White college kids
Gospel(Sandi Patti)
Classical-parents
Bluegrass-Grandparents

Now I know this is not quite the "law" about who listens to what but lets face it ,just like white people are not going to see Tyler Perry movies,black people are not going Gweneth Paltrow in Queen Elizabeth.

Notice even though Gospel is still the same,the type of Gospel blacks and whites listen to is totally different

Anyway I think we are too hard on ourselves.We are a smaller demographic not used to having options that we have today.
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Old 05-01-2011, 03:43 AM
 
1,666 posts, read 2,355,542 times
Reputation: 486
Right this was a excellent post.







Quote:
Originally Posted by afonega1 View Post
I dont believe black people are any less inclined to watch more lowbrow stuff than other groups.If Jackass can open at #1 and white people flocking to see it ,then why should black people be any better?

I think deep down inside we stll have issues about what the "white man thinks of us".We try so hard to separate ourselves from the less than "cultured" blacks that are many times in our own extended family.

A lot of times the cast is not al black or even that the main character is black,but blacks flock to those too.Take the XMEN,IronMAN, Schwarzenegger and Stallone movies.
What about "Ray"? The Color Purple?How many black people do you know have NEVER seen the Color Purple?Waiting to Exhale?OMG!Precious?

It also has to do with class and demogrphics.A 18-35y/o white male is not going to go see Sex In the City.

Think of it lke this:
Music
Black people Musci Genres:
Hip Hop
R&B
Neo-Soul-black hippies."enlightened" bro's and sis
Jazz(Your dad)
Gospel(Kirk Franklin,Byron Cage)
Blues-Your Granddad
House-See Neo Soul

White People Music:
Country the same as R&B
Heavy Metal-White males under 40
Alternative Rock-White college kids
Gospel(Sandi Patti)
Classical-parents
Bluegrass-Grandparents

Now I know this is not quite the "law" about who listens to what but lets face it ,just like white people are not going to see Tyler Perry movies,black people are not going Gweneth Paltrow in Queen Elizabeth.

Notice even though Gospel is still the same,the type of Gospel blacks and whites listen to is totally different

Anyway I think we are too hard on ourselves.We are a smaller demographic not used to having options that we have today.
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Old 05-01-2011, 07:55 AM
 
Location: Atlanta
3,472 posts, read 4,136,138 times
Reputation: 2177
Quote:
Originally Posted by afonega1 View Post
I dont believe black people are any less inclined to watch more lowbrow stuff than other groups.If Jackass can open at #1 and white people flocking to see it ,then why should black people be any better?.

You may have a point there, but here is my counterpoint:

My argument is not with those who share same the view as yourself that blacks Americans should not be seen as any different than white americans when comes to their viewing choices.

My argument is with those who act is if Hollywood has some sort of moral duty to put out a better image of African Americans. We see these varying scathing critiques of Hollywood in places like Ebony, Jet and Essence magazine, argued over in opinion shows on Black Entertainment Television or T.V. One, and lambasted in events like "State of the Black Union". These entities often will not acknowledge that it's mostly the audience that "chooses" what Hollywood will put out.

This media entity is not the Department of Family and Children Services nor is it the NAACP. Hollywood is unabashedly a for-profit making engine and for the most part will put out the product that it feels will get the most box office & DVD receipts.

So when I put out this type of opinion, that is who I am talking about. To be fair though, I can easily share in the same criticism I am putting out as being one those who at times want Hollywood to put out better images of Africa Americans...even though I must acknowledge that the free-market will ultimately make that determination.


Quote:
Originally Posted by afonega1 View Post
I think deep down inside we stll have issues about what the "white man thinks of us".We try so hard to separate ourselves from the less than "cultured" blacks that are many times in our own extended family.
I don't see my opinions as looking at what white people think of us. I am simply putting my layman's opinion to an issue that should probably be studied deeper by those more scholarly than I, in the areas of sociology & psychology. Unfortunately, I do not see anyone in those circles of academia at this time looking deeply & comprehensively at the issues of how & why these certain images of African Americans are put out in the media.

Instead, I see this ongoing haranguing of "the media" without any sophisticated thought given to reasons behind the way media works. If there are any, these reasons may often be put forth in an esoteric way behind closed doors, so as to not give the average layman on the street like us the opportunity to learn about this issue...and perhaps either solve it or put it to rest.



Quote:
Originally Posted by afonega1 View Post
A lot of times the cast is not al black or even that the main character is black,but blacks flock to those too.Take the XMEN,IronMAN, Schwarzenegger and Stallone movies.
What about "Ray"? The Color Purple?How many black people do you know have NEVER seen the Color Purple?Waiting to Exhale?OMG!Precious?

It also has to do with class and demogrphics.A 18-35y/o white male is not going to go see Sex In the City.

Think of it lke this:
Music
Black people Musci Genres:
Hip Hop
R&B
Neo-Soul-black hippies."enlightened" bro's and sis
Jazz(Your dad)
Gospel(Kirk Franklin,Byron Cage)
Blues-Your Granddad
House-See Neo Soul

White People Music:
Country the same as R&B
Heavy Metal-White males under 40
Alternative Rock-White college kids
Gospel(Sandi Patti)
Classical-parents
Bluegrass-Grandparents

Now I know this is not quite the "law" about who listens to what but lets face it ,just like white people are not going to see Tyler Perry movies,black people are not going Gweneth Paltrow in Queen Elizabeth.

Notice even though Gospel is still the same,the type of Gospel blacks and whites listen to is totally different

Anyway I think we are too hard on ourselves.We are a smaller demographic not used to having options that we have today.
Maybe I could be "too hard" on black people. That can be a valid criticism of my opinions.

But I have to wonder: Why it is that a movie like "Good Will Hunting" starring Matt Damon could be made on a shoestring budget of $10,000,000 yet be an overwhelming smash hit with Gross Revenues of $225,933,435...Yet "Antwone Fisher" starring Derek Luke, being the same type of movie, but actually going deeper into the background of the lead character can be budgeted on a nearly similar shoestring budget of $12,500,000 and garner only a paltry $23,367,586 in Gross revenue?

Even when adjusting for population differences between white and black people, I find it somewhat disconcerting that Antwone Fisher could not have mustered at least $40,000,000 at the box office.

I simply think that in light of those circumstances, there should be less bashing of Hollywood and more looking inward of the black community and asking quite frankly whether or not we are willing to view our fellow black people as being able to play a wide & diverse array of characters...and then actually pay major bank to see those characters.

That's my main point, I guess.

Last edited by AcidSnake; 05-01-2011 at 09:03 AM..
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Old 05-01-2011, 09:03 AM
 
Location: Atlanta ,GA
9,086 posts, read 12,930,360 times
Reputation: 2908
Quote:
Originally Posted by AcidSnake View Post
You may have a point there, but here is my counterpoint:

My argument is not with those who share same the view as yourself that blacks Americans should not be seen as any different than white americans when comes to their viewing choices.

My argument is with those who act is if Hollywood has some sort of moral duty to put out a better image of African Americans. We see these varying scathing critiques of Hollywood in places like Ebony, Jet and Essence magazine, argued over in opinion shows on Black Entertainment Television or T.V. One, and lambasted in events like "State of the Black Union". These entities often will not acknowledge that it's mostly the audience that "chooses" what Hollywood will put out.

This media entity is not the Department of Family and Children Services nor is it the NAACP. Hollywood is unabashedly a for-profit making engine and for the most part will put out the product that it feels will get the most box office & DVD receipts.

So when I put out this type of opinion, that is who I am talking about. To be fair, I can share in the same criticism as being one those who at times want Hollywood to put out better images of Africa Americans...even though I must acknowledge that the free-market will ultimately make that determination.




I don't see my opinions as looking at what white people think of us. I am simply putting my layman's opinion to an issue that should probably be studied deeper by those more scholarly than I, in the areas of sociology & psychology. Unfortunately, I do not see anyone in those circles of academia at this time looking deeply & comprehensively at the issues of how & why these certain images of African Americans are put out in the media.

Instead, I see this ongoing haranguing of "the media" without any sophisticated thought given to reasons behind the way media works. If there are any, these reasons may often be put forth in an esoteric way behind closed doors so as to not give the layman on street like us the opportunity to learn about this issue...and perhaps either solve it or put it to rest.





Maybe I could be "too hard" on black people. That can be a valid criticism of my opinions.

But I have to wonder: Why it is that a movie like "Good Will Hunting" starring Matt Damon could be made on a shoestring budget of $10,000,000 yet be an overwhelming smash hit with Gross Revenues of $225,933,435...Yet "Antwone Fisher" starring Derek Luke, being the same type of movie, but actually going deeper into the background of the lead character can be budgeted on a nearly similar shoestring budget of $12,500,000 and garner only a paltry $23,367,586 in Gross revenue?

Even when adjusting for population differences between white and black people, I find it somewhat disconcerting that Antwone Fisher could not have mustered at least $40,000,000 at the box office.

I simply think that in light of those circumstances, there should be less bashing of Hollywood and more looking inward of the black community and asking quite frankly whether or not we are willing to view our fellow black people as being able to play a wide & diverse array of characters...and then actually pay major bank to see those characters.

That's my main point, I guess.
I see what you are saying.I agree with most of it except your last point.Look at like this:

And Black people can go to mainstream colleges and get minority funded type loans.UGA,GSU,Clayton State etc...

A wite student can go to Clark Atlanta and get those exact same loans.By law its mandated that way.
Yet how many white students do you see on a HBCU? Usually less than 3% where as the opposite blacks comprise upwards of 10%-30%,

So this is how I see movies that are black themed and ran.Whites did not go to see Antoine Fisher in great numbers either.Wasn't Robert Dinero in that too?If they did a big movie based on the life of WEB Dubose or Jessie Jackson or better yet Cynthia Mckinney(LOL)how many whites vs blacks would show up?
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Old 05-01-2011, 09:11 AM
 
Location: Atlanta
3,472 posts, read 4,136,138 times
Reputation: 2177
Quote:
Originally Posted by afonega1 View Post
I see what you are saying.I agree with most of it except your last point.Look at like this:

And Black people can go to mainstream colleges and get minority funded type loans.UGA,GSU,Clayton State etc...

A wite student can go to Clark Atlanta and get those exact same loans.By law its mandated that way.
Yet how many white students do you see on a HBCU? Usually less than 3% where as the opposite blacks comprise upwards of 10%-30%,.
I am failing to see how this part is relevant to my general thesis statement. When you think about it, why would whites go to private black universities like Clark Atlanta or Spelman in large numbers, when there is Emory University or Agnes Scott?

My point as I said before, is that people in the black community should not complain about the lack of decent African American roles in Hollywood or complain about Hollywood itself, if they are not willing to front the major bank for the movies where African Americans are actually are seen in a positive light, or the very least are shown to be able to act in various & complicated roles.

Quote:
Originally Posted by afonega1 View Post
So this is how I see movies that are black themed and ran.Whites did not go to see Antoine Fisher in great numbers either.Wasn't Robert Dinero in that too?If they did a big movie based on the life of WEB Dubose or Jessie Jackson or better yet Cynthia Mckinney(LOL)how many whites vs blacks would show up?
I wouldn't expect whites to go see Antwone Fisher in large numbers.

I expected blacks to go see Antwone Fisher in large numbers, in the same way that whites went to see Good Will Hunting in large numbers.
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Old 05-01-2011, 09:52 AM
 
Location: America
5,098 posts, read 7,384,586 times
Reputation: 1919
Quote:
Originally Posted by afonega1 View Post
I dont believe black people are any less inclined to watch more lowbrow stuff than other groups.If Jackass can open at #1 and white people flocking to see it ,then why should black people be any better?

I think deep down inside we stll have issues about what the "white man thinks of us".We try so hard to separate ourselves from the less than "cultured" blacks that are many times in our own extended family.

A lot of times the cast is not al black or even that the main character is black,but blacks flock to those too.Take the XMEN,IronMAN, Schwarzenegger and Stallone movies.
What about "Ray"? The Color Purple?How many black people do you know have NEVER seen the Color Purple?Waiting to Exhale?OMG!Precious?

It also has to do with class and demogrphics.A 18-35y/o white male is not going to go see Sex In the City.

Think of it lke this:
Music
Black people Musci Genres:
Hip Hop
R&B
Neo-Soul-black hippies."enlightened" bro's and sis
Jazz(Your dad)
Gospel(Kirk Franklin,Byron Cage)
Blues-Your Granddad
House-See Neo Soul

White People Music:
Country the same as R&B
Heavy Metal-White males under 40
Alternative Rock-White college kids
Gospel(Sandi Patti)
Classical-parents
Bluegrass-Grandparents

Now I know this is not quite the "law" about who listens to what but lets face it ,just like white people are not going to see Tyler Perry movies,black people are not going Gweneth Paltrow in Queen Elizabeth.

Notice even though Gospel is still the same,the type of Gospel blacks and whites listen to is totally different

Anyway I think we are too hard on ourselves.We are a smaller demographic not used to having options that we have today.
I despise house music. Neo-soul is probably my favorite, though.

I think it's just time for Tyluh Perries to take a break for a while. I desperately want to see the return of good black filmmaking come back to the forefront. Spike Lee, Malcolm D. Lee, George Tillman Jr., The Hughes Brothers, John Singleton, etc.
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Old 05-01-2011, 10:05 AM
 
Location: Atlanta
3,472 posts, read 4,136,138 times
Reputation: 2177
I think the only way good black film-making will actually come back is when our black community actually supports it in huge numbers & box office receipts. As it is currently, we black folks by large seem to be more interested in looking at black men dress in drag.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AlGreen View Post
I despise house music. Neo-soul is probably my favorite, though.

I think it's just time for Tyluh Perries to take a break for a while. I desperately want to see the return of good black filmmaking come back to the forefront. Spike Lee, Malcolm D. Lee, George Tillman Jr., The Hughes Brothers, John Singleton, etc.
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