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Old 05-01-2011, 10:14 AM
 
Location: America
5,098 posts, read 7,363,415 times
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True, but I think it starts with the film companies. They have to start making this stuff. At this point, Tyler is really the only guy doing anything, and I wouldn't doubt that even some of his fans are starting to get sick of his stuff. I'm sure there are audiences who only go see his work because there's nothing else out there for us.

But hell, black folks supported the hell out of movies like Soul Food (budget: 7.5 MIL, gross revenue: 43.7 MIL) and Drumline (budget: 20 MIL, gross rev: 57.58 MIL). I know those are old, but I think good black movies can still find success, but the studios need to get with it.
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Old 05-01-2011, 10:29 AM
 
Location: Atlanta
3,463 posts, read 4,123,226 times
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That's debateable.

Film companies are businesses at the end of the day, not social services organizations. That money has to be made and maybe there is some sort of unspoken profit margin rule that we don't know about that these businesses abide by when making their movies.

Yes, Drumline and Soulfood did relatively well for the market that these films were geared towards. But the industry, since it's more European dominated, will ultimately gravitate more towards making white movies before they will do black movies, because there is a certain level of comfort & familiarity in knowing what sells in the white community.

Although I am not in the film industry, I would have to assume that African Americans are looked at as a niche group and very often businesses can be squeamish when it comes to trying to appeal to niche groups, because there is so much that can go wrong. Businesses in general hate dealing with small margins for error.

So I do understand your point.

But at the end of the day when a movie like "Madea goes to Jail" can garner over $90million on a $17million budget, it becomes very hard for the film industry to want look at creating any other sort of film that could possibly appeal to the black community. They are gonna go where the proven profit is, which is black men in drag performing slapstick comedy.

It is ultimately up to us black people to show to them otherwise, with our hard-earned dollars.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AlGreen View Post
True, but I think it starts with the film companies. They have to start making this stuff. At this point, Tyler is really the only guy doing anything, and I wouldn't doubt that even some of his fans are starting to get sick of his stuff. I'm sure there are audiences who only go see his work because there's nothing else out there for us.

But hell, black folks supported the hell out of movies like Soul Food (budget: 7.5 MIL, gross revenue: 43.7 MIL) and Drumline (budget: 20 MIL, gross rev: 57.58 MIL). I know those are old, but I think good black movies can still find success, but the studios need to get with it.

Last edited by AcidSnake; 05-01-2011 at 11:09 AM..
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Old 05-01-2011, 10:39 AM
 
Location: Atlanta ,GA
9,086 posts, read 12,892,989 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AcidSnake View Post
I am failing to see how this part is relevant to my general thesis statement. When you think about it, why would whites go to private black universities like Clark Atlanta or Spelman in large numbers, when there is Emory University or Agnes Scott?

My point as I said before, is that people in the black community should not complain about the lack of decent African American roles in Hollywood or complain about Hollywood itself, if they are not willing to front the major bank for the movies where African Americans are actually are seen in a positive light, or the very least are shown to be able to act in various & complicated roles.



I wouldn't expect whites to go see Antwone Fisher in large numbers.

I expected blacks to go see Antwone Fisher in large numbers, in the same way that whites went to see Good Will Hunting in large numbers.
Why should they not?Same reason that why should blacks go to a "mainstream" university.Fort Valley State University where I went to school is an HBCU that is public but its 95% black,So is Savannah State and Albany State.
I made the statement to draw a parallel to what people go see.These movies you mention are geared to a market that at best makes up 13% of the U.S. population.Thats assuming that 100% of that 13% even goes to movies anyway.
Its really not economically feasible to risk doing a great number of heavy deep thought provoking black films when you can always go for easy for more money.As I said before(which I think you said you agree).

I do believe Tyler,more than any other black in Hollywood(beside Oprah,Will and Jada Smith)can really turned the corner in what is put out there.Tyler has amassed clout and power.I think once his studio is fully functional he can dapple in all kids of things.I love Spike and have much respect but what he has pales in comparison to what T.P. has.I do think eventually they will resolve these differences and work together.
His latest estimated worth is $646million.He owns ALL the rights to his movies which is not common.
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Old 05-01-2011, 10:48 AM
 
Location: America
5,098 posts, read 7,363,415 times
Reputation: 1919
Exactly. That's my point. They're, the ones who continue to make the stuff, thinking it's the only thing we'll support. They're not giving black folks the chance to prove that we can support better films. It's not like we have plenty of options. I honestly believe Tyler Perry's films would not be as successful as he is right now if there were more options in the theater. You also have to remember that, in the past, TP connected with the black audience in a way that no one else has. He started with his gospel plays, that were funny, and it resonated with the black community.

Tyler Perry and Lionsgate are the only ones putting that type of material out into the public. It's not like he's started some trend.
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Old 05-01-2011, 10:51 AM
 
Location: America
5,098 posts, read 7,363,415 times
Reputation: 1919
Quote:
Originally Posted by afonega1 View Post
.I love Spike and have much respect but what he has pales in comparison to what T.P. has.I do think eventually they will resolve these differences and work together.
Pfft. Tyler Perry may have a lot, but until he proves that he can do better with it, that means nothing to me. Spike Lee is a far more respected filmmaker and has contributed so much more to black cinema. Tylers wealth is obviously good for nothing but producing more junk and, well, giving actors a job (which he is appreciated for). Now I'm not hating on the man, but I'm just being honest.

Spike knows his own worth. He doesn't need to work with TP.
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Old 05-01-2011, 10:56 AM
 
Location: Atlanta
3,463 posts, read 4,123,226 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by afonega1 View Post
Why should they not?Same reason that why should blacks go to a "mainstream" university.Fort Valley State University where I went to school is an HBCU that is public but its 95% black,So is Savannah State and Albany State.
I made the statement to draw a parallel to what people go see.These movies you mention are geared to a market that at best makes up 13% of the U.S. population.Thats assuming that 100% of that 13% even goes to movies anyway.
Its really not economically feasible to risk doing a great number of heavy deep thought provoking black films when you can always go for easy for more money.As I said before(which I think you said you agree).
I think that we were originally arguing two different sets of points but got confused along the way about what we were agreeing or disagreeing about.

Originally your point I assumed was that black people shouldn't have their movie-vewing habits looked at or judged no different than how white people have their movie viewing habits looked at.

My original point is that some of those in our black community should not complain about the relative lack of various movies involving black people if we all too often support more of the slapstick stuff than other types of movies.

As far as the university stuff is concerned, I would say quite frankly that the reason that whites probably don't attend HBCUs in droves is that they rightly or wrongly view them as substandard. But that's a conversation for another day.




Quote:
Originally Posted by afonega1 View Post
I do believe Tyler,more than any other black in Hollywood(beside Oprah,Will and Jada Smith)can really turned the corner in what is put out there.Tyler has amassed clout and power.I think once his studio is fully functional he can dapple in all kids of things.I love Spike and have much respect but what he has pales in comparison to what T.P. has.I do think eventually they will resolve these differences and work together.
His latest estimated worth is $646million.He owns ALL the rights to his movies which is not common.
My hope is that Spike Lee, Tyler Perry along with everyone else in the black community adopts the nuanced view that there is ample room for both types of entertainment. I really don't see anything wrong with movies showing men in drag as long as there are plenty of movies that counteract those notions.

But we average black folk on the street play a heavy role in making that happen, and it's somewhat dishonest I think, to not acknowledge otherwise.
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Old 05-01-2011, 11:01 AM
 
Location: Atlanta ,GA
9,086 posts, read 12,892,989 times
Reputation: 2908
Quote:
Originally Posted by AlGreen View Post
Exactly. That's my point. They're, the ones who continue to make the stuff, thinking it's the only thing we'll support. They're not giving black folks the chance to prove that we can support better films. It's not like we have plenty of options. I honestly believe Tyler Perry's films would not be as successful as he is right now if there were more options in the theater. You also have to remember that, in the past, TP connected with the black audience in a way that no one else has. He started with his gospel plays, that were funny, and it resonated with the black community.

Tyler Perry and Lionsgate are the only ones putting that type of material out into the public. It's not like he's started some trend.
Well of course.Tyler Perry is no trailblazer accept in the business sense he is.Its not so much the movies but who he targets to.The FIRST rule in a business is to know you audience or market.

there is always gonna be a market for T.P.stuff no matter whats out there.Like I said before,if white people got stupid stuff like Jackass,Baby Mama,Talladega Nights etc....Then why would black people be any different with T.P. movies?Besides its not like he is the only one putting these movies out.T.P. has got NOTHING as bad a Soul Plane.

I think if T.P. was the one who put out Friday,there would be an uproar too.But even though Friday is loved by a lot of black people its still "coonery".Why don't you hear people complaining about it?
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Old 05-01-2011, 11:02 AM
 
Location: Atlanta ,GA
9,086 posts, read 12,892,989 times
Reputation: 2908
Quote:
Originally Posted by AcidSnake View Post
I think that we were originally arguing two different sets of points but got confused along the way about what we were agreeing or disagreeing about.

Originally your point I assumed was that black people shouldn't have their movie-vewing habits looked at or judged no different than how white people have their movie viewing habits looked at.

My original point is that some of those in our black community should not complain about the relative lack of various movies involving black people if we all too often support more of the slapstick stuff than other types of movies.

As far as the university stuff is concerned, I would say quite frankly that the reason that whites probably don't attend HBCUs in droves is that they rightly or wrongly view them as substandard. But that's a conversation for another day.






My hope is that Spike Lee, Tyler Perry along with everyone else in the black community adopts the nuanced view that there is ample room for both types of entertainment. I really don't see anything wrong with movies showing men in drag as long as there are plenty of movies that counteract those notions.

But we average black folk on the street play a heavy role in making that happen, and it's somewhat dishonest I think, to not acknowledge otherwise.
Yeh youre right I agree with everything you say.
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Old 05-01-2011, 11:04 AM
 
Location: Atlanta
3,463 posts, read 4,123,226 times
Reputation: 2167
This is shaping up to be one of those "chicken or the egg" type of situations.

Is Typer Perry & Liongate putting out the "black men in drag" stuff that we in the black community are forced to see, or is it that we black people already gravitated towards that type of entertainment anyway & TP/Lionsgate are simply giving to us what we like?

I guess we will have to agree to disagree on that one, AlGreen.

No big deal.

Quote:
Originally Posted by AlGreen View Post
Exactly. That's my point. They're, the ones who continue to make the stuff, thinking it's the only thing we'll support. They're not giving black folks the chance to prove that we can support better films. It's not like we have plenty of options. I honestly believe Tyler Perry's films would not be as successful as he is right now if there were more options in the theater. You also have to remember that, in the past, TP connected with the black audience in a way that no one else has. He started with his gospel plays, that were funny, and it resonated with the black community.

Tyler Perry and Lionsgate are the only ones putting that type of material out into the public. It's not like he's started some trend.
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Old 05-01-2011, 11:27 AM
 
Location: Jersey City, NJ
349 posts, read 662,179 times
Reputation: 307
Reading this thread has been eye opening. One thing that I will say is that I hate the concept of a white movie vs a black movie. Whenever I watch a movie I don't think of it as "this is a white movie so I'm watching it because I'm white". I view it as just a movie.

That said, some may argue that most major films are geared towards the lowest common denominator because that's what sells regardless of race. Some folks would argue that independent movies are more thought provoking. So I'm wondering is there a market for black independent films which are more thought provoking than the avg Madea movie? Movies that aren't really going to be box office smashes but that cater to a particular group within a group I suppose.

I'm now interested to see Antwone Fisher as I like any movie with a good storyline regardless if it's a black, white, albino, purple, etc movie.
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