Carlos Santanta embarrasses himself at yesterdays Braves game. (luxury, friendly)

[arjay57]

Originally Posted by Bullbear

Lets see, Arjay and Zel Ya denigrate "natural born citizens" and "white kids" as "non value adding" and "NOT so wonderful" and that is just fine with everyone.

Oh, please. It's ridiculous to claim I've denigrated natural born citizens or white kids in general. I haven't and don't.

But you know as well as I do there are plenty of pretty sorry ones. I'll make no bones about the fact that the Hispanic friends I'm talking about -- who, again, are here legally -- will blow plenty of natural born citizens out of the water when it comes energy, intelligence, hard work and adding value to society. They pay their taxes and obey the law. They speak English better than plenty of natural born citizens.

I'll gladly take as many solid, hardworking legal immigrants as we can get for the foreseeable future. As far as the lazy bums who take out more than they put in, in my opinion they are free to go, whether they were born here or not.

[BringBackCobain]

Originally Posted by K-SawDude

How is a pro-immigration stance "Marxist" necessarily? In the famous words of Inigo Montoya, "You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means."


YouTube - ‪You keep using that word.‬‏

While I think immigrants can form part of a "proletariat" in some theories, I don't think Marx was all that interested in immigration per se. More to the point, with the references to "Cultural Hegemony" and Marxism, it seems like you're straw man-ing waronxmas's argument.

Suggesting that we have comprehensive immigration reform is hardly a Marxist ideal.

Fine. I was using Marxist as a synonym for communist, but if we want to get really technical about it, the pro-illegal immigrant stance is Gramscian, not Marxist.

Gramsci disagreed with Marx. Instead of imposing communism by force, Gramsci advocated first the subversion and destruction of the main barrier to communism in the West, Western culture itself. This is accomplished by leftists conducting a long march through the institutions of society--academia, media, performing arts, public schools, seminaries, entertainment, government, etc.--to positions of power within those institutions. Once there, they radicalize the institutions and used them to subvert the values of Western culture. Eventually, society would become detached from its foundational underpinnings, and communism wouldn't even need to be imposed by force--it would be welcomed.

Since the goal is to break down the institutional foundations of society, whatever accomplishes that will be supported. In this case, they are pro-illegal immigrant because they want to dilute and eventually destroy the idea of the U.S. as a nation with protected borders and restrictions on entry. In addition, they want as many immigrants as possible. Large numbers of immigrants prevent assimilation, resulting in a hostile, un-American, non-western underclass.

[blkgiraffe]

Why are people trying to justify these people's actions. They are ****ting all over the constitution and continuously breaking the law. These celebrities and politicians don't give two ****s about them; they're just rambling on with their self centered speeches to promote themselves. This man did nothing brave or amazing.

[kirkwoodhipster]

Originally Posted by BringBackCobain

How professional of you. Lauding someone who thinks a lawyer should be disbarred for having non-leftist viewpoints. Were you asleep during LE&P class, or do you really agree that my viewpoints would be grounds for dismissal from the bar? I really want to know.

**blows whistle**

Time out.

I (like many other posters) am trying to look at this issue in a mature fashion, looking at BOTH sides and RESPECTING opinions of others... ahem...

That being said, my dad works at the Georgia bar assoc. and I actually just had him read what you said. To be fair, nothing you said or claimed to beleive could have your license stripped.


... play ball!

[K-SawDude]

Originally Posted by BringBackCobain

Fine. I was using Marxist as a synonym for communist, but if we want to get really technical about it, the pro-illegal immigrant stance is Gramscian, not Marxist.

Gramsci disagreed with Marx. Instead of imposing communism by force, Gramsci advocated first the subversion and destruction of the main barrier to communism in the West, Western culture itself. This is accomplished by leftists conducting a long march through the institutions of society--academia, media, performing arts, public schools, seminaries, entertainment, government, etc.--to positions of power within those institutions. Once there, they radicalize the institutions and used them to subvert the values of Western culture. Eventually, society would become detached from its foundational underpinnings, and communism wouldn't even need to be imposed by force--it would be welcomed.

Since the goal is to break down the institutional foundations of society, whatever accomplishes that will be supported. In this case, they are pro-illegal immigrant because they want to dilute and eventually destroy the idea of the U.S. as a nation with protected borders and restrictions on entry. In addition, they want as many immigrants as possible. Large numbers of immigrants prevent assimilation, resulting in a hostile, un-American, non-western underclass.

Interesting. Of course, it might be best to let waronxmas or other pro-immigration folks speak for themselves on this matter. I certainly didn't interpret his or others' posts in this particular thread as anti-American-nationalism in intent.

Isn't it possible to advocate for immigration AND assimilation/integration into American culture? It's not necessarily an either/or proposition, where immigration is on one side and "America" is on the other. (This is where the Marx/Gramsci obsession with dialectic sort of seems too easy of an explanation, IMO. Rather it being a matter of us vs. them, it's more like us + them = something new and different, that's both American and not completely identical to what previous generations have called "American." You'd probably hate Homi Bhabha, but he makes good points about the utility in thinking less in terms of binaries and more in terms of hybridity when it comes to culture.)

I'm someone who believes we should have significant but *targeted* immigration policies. I don't believe we should have completely open borders. (I've seen almost that in the Netherlands, and it was horrifying.) But I also think it's stupid to waste money building border fences and to waste emotional energy ginning up paranoia about Mexicans creeping into "our" territory. Set up a guest worker program and path to citizenship for current immigrants. Start enforcing current law in terms of fining employers for hiring those without citizenship or proper visa paperwork. Put taxpayer money behind ESL programs instead of just complaining about people's lack of English speaking skills. (At the same time, Americans need to learn a language other than English at a much earlier age as well. But that's for another debate.) Compel new immigrants to settle in cities that NEED working populations, like Detroit.

I don't see why such efforts have to be seen as communistic in intent or threatening to the cultural notion of "American" identity.

P.S. I'd also quibble with your assumption that "Western values," at least as far as America is concerned, don't include a notion of openness to immigration. You seem to suggest that open immigration is a leftist attempt to threaten such Western values. But it seems reasonably clear that immigration is a SIGNIFICANT part of the historical construction of American values and identity. And that isn't just a leftist narrative; that's a historical fact. Now, the left may overstate the "nation of immigrants" meme, but you can't pretend like immigration hasn't formed a significant part of American values historically.

[Bullbear]

Originally Posted by arjay57

Oh, please. It's ridiculous to claim I've denigrated natural born citizens or white kids in general. I haven't and don't.

But you know as well as I do there are plenty of pretty sorry ones. I'll make no bones about the fact that the Hispanic friends I'm talking about -- who, again, are here legally -- will blow plenty of natural born citizens out of the water when it comes energy, intelligence, hard work and adding value to society. They pay their taxes and obey the law. They speak English better than plenty of natural born citizens.

I'll gladly take as many solid, hardworking legal immigrants as we can get for the foreseeable future. As far as the lazy bums who take out more than they put in, in my opinion they are free to go, whether they were born here or not.

Zel Ya specifically whacked white kids. Read her post.

Sure, lots of natives are lazy and worthless. Some are even criminal! Shocker. But the fact is, we don't get to pick and choose who enters the US. Could be the next Einstein. Or could be the next Ted Bundy.

Your anecdotal evidence aside, coming here without permission is illegal. I suppose you might otherwise leave your home unlocked. After all, any uninvited guests might be just down on their luck near saints, who are "better" than the current inhabitants and more deserving of it's contents.

[AnsleyPark]

Originally Posted by kirkwoodhipster

**blows whistle**

Time out.

I (like many other posters) am trying to look at this issue in a mature fashion, looking at BOTH sides and RESPECTING opinions of others... ahem...

That being said, my dad works at the Georgia bar assoc. and I actually just had him read what you said. To be fair, nothing you said or claimed to beleive could have your license stripped.


... play ball!

Settle down - no one wants anyone to lose their law or any other license. Go back and read the post I responded to. There is a lot more to it. And, I bet I know your dad!

[RandyWatson13]

I gave up on this thread...now they are throwing out the usual words, marxism etc as they have little knowledge, no real point and don't know when to gracefully leave.

These exact comments are why I cringe when I go to vote and stand in line....sad.

[JPD]

Originally Posted by Georgia

Another thing you have to love about folks like him. Having enough money to grab a microphone to spout their spew, no matter what their leanings, but yet never stepping up to volunteer anything out of their pocket.

Oh really?

The Milagro Foundation - Making a difference in the lives of children...

[Boompa]

Originally Posted by suprascooby22

Santana blasts Georgia immigration bill before Braves game *| ajc.com

Your thoughts?

He was right, but why would he go tho a Braves game?
I guess a better question would be, why would the Braves invite him?

Let's see.......Carlos Santana or Ted Nugent? hmmmmm