Welcome to City-Data.com Forum!
U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > Georgia > Atlanta
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 06-01-2011, 09:02 AM
 
Location: Ono Island, Orange Beach, AL
10,733 posts, read 13,275,291 times
Reputation: 7159

Advertisements

I recall years ago growing up in south Georgia in a very agricultural part of the state, most of my parents' friends farmed. Agriculture was really all we were exposed to. The farmers generally paid the migrant workers in cash, for obvious reasons. The "housing" that the farmers could afford to supply generally consisted of a few severly run-down mobile homes parked in the woods. I remember that the mobile homes housed a dozen or so workers at a time during the three to sixth month harvest seasons.

The way of life for family farmers cannot be sustained by paying market wages and providing decent housing for workers. The ag economy just doesn't work that way. That's why there are fewer family farmers than there used to be. Corporate farming isa sure to all but eliminate the family farmers' way of life.

Having my roots in south Georgia, I find this all very sad. We'd rather pay for fruits and vegetables grown in South America on the cheap than a price that fairly reflects the cost to local growers to produce the crop. And then we (as a society) enact laws that make it even harder for our local growers.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 06-01-2011, 09:06 AM
 
528 posts, read 1,277,729 times
Reputation: 274
Default I knew I wouldn't be popular.

Quote:
Originally Posted by brownhornet View Post
Um, and how many hispanics are there up there compared to the south? Thanks for stating the obvious.
.

What does it matter if there are no hispanics up here? Actually, there are inside the city of Buffalo. My point is, those that work in those jobs up here are legal citizens who are doing the work. It's not like we have a shortage of landscape crews, believe me. Maybe if there weren't illegal workers making money off the books, there would be jobs for those out of work. Not everyone around here makes $40K and up a year. Both spouses work and that's how most of America is. Anyway, you won't change my mind.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-01-2011, 09:14 AM
 
31,994 posts, read 36,537,731 times
Reputation: 13254
Quote:
Originally Posted by AcidSnake View Post
Notice I said Conservatives, and not Republicans. I pick on ideology, not political party.

Bcause there are also Conservative Democrats who I despise greatly.

This is why it's so hard to have a nuanced discussion on what way is the best way. Folks like you keep conflating ideology with political party.

Y'all have too much of a hard time separating the two for some unknown reason.
Whoa -- sorry to get you riled up! Yes, I agree that there are plenty of conservative Democrats, and a lot of really radical Republicans. It was my bad to conflate the parties with ideology.

My point was simply that President Obama, who is not generally categorized as a Conservative, has also been a supporter of Free Trade Agreements.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-01-2011, 09:21 AM
 
31,994 posts, read 36,537,731 times
Reputation: 13254
Quote:
Originally Posted by Akhenaton06 View Post
Is that $192/day representative of the daily wage of the average worker?
It's on the high side as an average but there are some ag workers making that much. That of course takes into account that the days are long -- often 10-12 hours. It also depends on skill level.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-01-2011, 09:30 AM
 
8,518 posts, read 15,596,386 times
Reputation: 7711
Quote:
Originally Posted by brownhornet View Post
Good news for who? I guess you dont realize that the reason most of those jobs are done by illegals to begin with is because the wages are crap. Same reason you see mostly hispanics (whether legal or not) working with lawn maintenance crews, because most "Americans" have too much "pride" to get out there and work hard for low wages. So you think Atlantans are going to run out and apply for these jobs now? Hell a lot of these people out of work could have ALWAYS gotten these types of jobs but chose not to.
If people are faced with going broke, not being able to pay their bills, and possibly becoming homeless, they'll swallow their pride and take these jobs. The right wing likes to perpetuate this myth that Americans will never do these jobs. That way, they can continue allowing illegals to come here and keep wages down. And since those workers are here illegally, they have no bargaining power and can be exploited. This is why the Republican party will never get serious about immigration reform. They know that certain industries like having cheap workers.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-01-2011, 10:02 AM
 
31,994 posts, read 36,537,731 times
Reputation: 13254
Quote:
Originally Posted by livinginbuffalo View Post
.

What does it matter if there are no hispanics up here? Actually, there are inside the city of Buffalo. My point is, those that work in those jobs up here are legal citizens who are doing the work. It's not like we have a shortage of landscape crews, believe me. Maybe if there weren't illegal workers making money off the books, there would be jobs for those out of work. Not everyone around here makes $40K and up a year. Both spouses work and that's how most of America is. Anyway, you won't change my mind.
Not sure why you say, "I knew I wouldn't be popular." There are plenty of people here who would agree that there is an abundance of legal citizens (white and otherwise) who could do farm work or landscaping for $10 an hour. In fact quite a lot of them are doing just that.

However, I will say this. Having run a good sized farm (not in Georgia), it is not easy to attract and retain agricultural workers. We paid a decent rate and provided medical coverage but the work is hard and the days are long.

Also, I think in the minds of some farm work is considered "low class" or "undesirable." Maybe that is not the exact way to put it but we posted help wanted signs and ads and went to several local employment offices, and people weren't exactly leaping to sign up. Sometimes I even walked up to folks on street corners and asked if they were looking for work.

You also have to take into account things like access to work. Farms are in rural areas and many workers don't have access to cars. Jobs tend to be seasonal so moving your residence to a place where you'll only be working for a few weeks or months is problematical, especially if you have children.

In the big picture I'm not persuaded that immigrants are stealing jobs that legal residents would otherwise be doing. Yes, they will often work for lower wages. But it's more complicated than that.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-01-2011, 10:08 AM
 
Location: Atlanta,GA
2,685 posts, read 6,400,631 times
Reputation: 1232
Quote:
Originally Posted by DennyCrane View Post
If people are faced with going broke, not being able to pay their bills, and possibly becoming homeless, they'll swallow their pride and take these jobs. The right wing likes to perpetuate this myth that Americans will never do these jobs. That way, they can continue allowing illegals to come here and keep wages down. And since those workers are here illegally, they have no bargaining power and can be exploited. This is why the Republican party will never get serious about immigration reform. They know that certain industries like having cheap workers.
Why hasn't it happened? People seem to resort to just about everything else before looking for "Migrant Work" on farms. Unemployment has been high for the last 2 years, and I dont see anyone jumping for farming gigs. Seemingly most will look for any and everything else, and if all else fails, they still dont go for the job on the farm. To them, it's just "So not worth it".

Low skilled Americans wont do it. At most, you may have some young students whose parents want them to learn the value of a buck and hard work that will do temporarily. But trust me, these kids will hit the books because there is no fun in picking onions or peaches.

Quote:
Originally Posted by livinginbuffalo View Post
.

What does it matter if there are no hispanics up here? Actually, there are inside the city of Buffalo. My point is, those that work in those jobs up here are legal citizens who are doing the work. It's not like we have a shortage of landscape crews, believe me. Maybe if there weren't illegal workers making money off the books, there would be jobs for those out of work. Not everyone around here makes $40K and up a year. Both spouses work and that's how most of America is. Anyway, you won't change my mind.
You do have a point. Not everyone makes $40k/yr, which is not much money to begin with .

Buffalo is hours away from NYC, and housing is relatively cheap up there. Basically Detroit housing prices. People up there dont have to make much. It is also a college town. There arent many industries in Buffalo. People take what they can, or leave for the big city for other jobs.

One thing I have to disagree with. Illegals are here for a reason. DEMAND for their hard work. Work, that most Americans wont do. POINT BLANK. This is not new. I highly doubt it will stop.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-01-2011, 10:16 AM
 
Location: The Greatest city on Earth: City of Atlanta Proper
8,468 posts, read 14,910,133 times
Reputation: 7263
Quote:
Originally Posted by DennyCrane View Post
If people are faced with going broke, not being able to pay their bills, and possibly becoming homeless, they'll swallow their pride and take these jobs. The right wing likes to perpetuate this myth that Americans will never do these jobs. That way, they can continue allowing illegals to come here and keep wages down. And since those workers are here illegally, they have no bargaining power and can be exploited. This is why the Republican party will never get serious about immigration reform. They know that certain industries like having cheap workers.
So, so, so on point.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-01-2011, 10:19 AM
 
Location: The Greatest city on Earth: City of Atlanta Proper
8,468 posts, read 14,910,133 times
Reputation: 7263
Quote:
Originally Posted by livinginbuffalo View Post
.

What does it matter if there are no hispanics up here? Actually, there are inside the city of Buffalo. My point is, those that work in those jobs up here are legal citizens who are doing the work. It's not like we have a shortage of landscape crews, believe me. Maybe if there weren't illegal workers making money off the books, there would be jobs for those out of work. Not everyone around here makes $40K and up a year. Both spouses work and that's how most of America is. Anyway, you won't change my mind.
Just so you are clear, the effects on the labor pool in Georgia this law will have likely will be just in rural areas for agriculture based jobs. Those areas are not very populated (60% of Georgia's population lives in Metro Atlanta alone), so they can not easily pull from another population group in the short term to fill those positions.

Up here in Atlanta though the same folks that do landscapping, day labor, and other menial jobs most likely will not change. There are simply just too many people.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-01-2011, 10:22 AM
 
Location: The Greatest city on Earth: City of Atlanta Proper
8,468 posts, read 14,910,133 times
Reputation: 7263
Quote:
Originally Posted by Akhenaton06 View Post
Is that $192/day representative of the daily wage of the average worker?
I suppose it is possible. People have to remember that farm work isn't a 9 to 5 sort of job. You go to work in the fields at the crack of dawn and stop working when the Sun sets. In the summer that's 13 to 14 hours.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:




Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > Georgia > Atlanta

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2024, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top