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Old 08-17-2011, 07:43 AM
 
3,207 posts, read 4,505,860 times
Reputation: 1732

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Quote:
Originally Posted by K-SawDude View Post
I love how saying I'm for a transportation list with a ratio of 75/25 transit to roads--especially in light of the virtual lack of public transit funding from state coffers--makes me an "extremist" who hates roads. Sheesh!
Joking aside, I agree with gtcorndog that we've gotta get this thing to pass, first and foremost. 75/25 would be unacceptable to many/most. I'm not too firm on exactly what the optimal split would be if it were up to me; it is what it is.

What the Cherokee County people should realize is that the train isn't "someone else's" train. It will relieve congestion along the I-75 corridor, where many (many) of them work. It will give those office districts direct access to the airport. All this could be vital to the I-75 corridor competing with the GA 400 corridor, and of course the fortunes of Cobb County's office districts are going to have a big impact, positive or negative, on Cherokee's housing market.

They (and just about everybody else) are also neglecting that one of the most feasible commuter rail routes in the whole metro area is the line that starts north of downtown Marietta and continues north towards Blue Ridge. The track is already owned by the state, and is used for tourist excursions. There have been serious proposals to make it commuter rail, except that it doesn't connect into anything--yet. $856 million just might change that.

edit: this is why I also think the line into Cobb ought to be closer to heavy rail or preferably the same rolling stock as MARTA; no one wants to take commuter rail then have to connect onto a light rail system
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Old 08-17-2011, 09:38 AM
 
Location: ITP - City of Atlanta Proper
7,794 posts, read 11,724,981 times
Reputation: 5394
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cameron H View Post
But these are projects that would be funded with the new 1% sales tax, yes? If so, what does the existing 1% tax have to do with it? These projects would be funded by the proposed 1% tax, and the allocated funds from that tax are $1.6 billion short of the project costs. So will that gap be filled from elsewhere, or will we only get parts of these projects, and if so, what parts?

I think I'm clear on everything else -- thanks a bunch!
Well that's a matter for Gwinnett, Cobb and the State to sort out. The thing that isn't being said that is a problem is that the remaining 8 counties in the 10 county region will have to pass some sort of funding measure for ongoing operations of the new transit options. The city of Atlanta, Fulton, and Dekalb on the other hand already have a funding mechanism in place and we'll just continue to use that.
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Old 08-17-2011, 09:40 AM
 
27,719 posts, read 24,737,149 times
Reputation: 16450
Just cut Cherokee County out of the whole thing. They don't get it and they don't want to get it. Let them focus on recruiting the next Fortune 500 company headquarters to Ball Ground so they won't have to travel to Cobb or Fulton counties for work.
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Old 08-17-2011, 10:01 AM
 
3,207 posts, read 4,505,860 times
Reputation: 1732
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mutiny77 View Post
Just cut Cherokee County out of the whole thing. They don't get it and they don't want to get it. Let them focus on recruiting the next Fortune 500 company headquarters to Ball Ground so they won't have to travel to Cobb or Fulton counties for work.
I would if I could, believe me. But they don't even seem to realize that the bulk of the road projects in the western part of North Fulton are to benefit THEM. SR 140 and Old Milton Parkway will be getting hundreds of millions in upgrades that will make the whole GA 400 corridor far more accessible to them.

People need to understand that the whole purpose of this tax is for projects that have ripple effects that cross county lines. N Fulton doesn't give two ****s that Arnold Mill Road is 2 lanes as it leaves the county and would keep it that way forever probably. It's Cherokee that really gets screwed over by this.
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Old 08-17-2011, 10:05 AM
 
Location: ITP - City of Atlanta Proper
7,794 posts, read 11,724,981 times
Reputation: 5394
Quote:
Originally Posted by bu2 View Post
Sounds like I was not confused except on the purpose of the $600 million. MARTA is basically leveraging the tax in order to do more capital projects outside the new transportation tax program. Am I interpreting you correctly?
That is correct.

Quote:
Originally Posted by bu2 View Post
And the other guy thought Cherokee Co. was pretty arrogant. Sorry, but I have a vote also. And its going to be pretty hard to get the money without this tax. And I'll suffer if it gets built because I use the limited E/W roads that this streetcar will virtually shut down. That is, until the suffocating traffic drives us to move to the burbs.
The Beltline as far as I know has not called for any streets to be shut down. The line itself already exist, so when the transit is put in then it will be just like a railroad crossing imagine where the barriers will come down when the train passes and then drivers can go on their merry way. But this sounds like a matter of you not wanting to change your ways. When the Beltline is in and integrated with MARTA rail and bus service you will have most likely a more efficient way of getting around the city aside from using a car.

What stifling traffic are you talking about though in the City of Atlanta? The only bad traffic in the city is where there are entrances on to the highway, Peachtree during rush hour, and a few avenues (Piedmont, Northside, Ponce, Memorial) that get congested. Those areas all have transit proposals to alleviate that. The rest of the city...no where near "stifling traffic".




Quote:
Originally Posted by bu2 View Post
I didn't answer your other question. MARTA just cut 40% of the bus routes. The operating costs of a system that noone rides will force more cuts to the bus system. And since its mostly circular through areas that aren't very dense and doesn't go anywhere people need to go, it doesn't provide much help to bus riders. The Beltline would be vastly more useful if it were used for dedicated bus lanes which a whole variety of different routes could use for part of their route, instead of basically a circular train that goes nowhere serving nobody in the hope that 20 or 30 years from now developers will build a bunch of high rise buildings to make it dense.
Le sigh

1. MARTA had to cut service because it ran into a budget shortfall caused by being required by the Federal government to replace the train control system. This was problem since they had already allocated most of their capital dollars to other projects and since they are extremely restricted on how they can use money they are not able to effectively save for emergencies like this.

2. The cuts were not caused because "no one rides" MARTA. MARTA has on average 460,000 riders per day for bus and rail. Only six other transit operations (NYC, DC, Chicago, Boston, Philadelphia, Los Angeles) have more rider per day and that is mostly due to all of those cities being a lot larger than Atlanta.

3. Turning the Beltline into a dedicated bus route is the worst idea possible. It would be able to serve the needed capacity, ruin the surrounding greenspace, and in general is just stupid.

4. The Beltline goes "nowhere"? The Beltline cuts through 40 neighborhoods including most of Midtown, Buckhead, the West End, Grant Park, the Old Fourth Ward and currently along it's route there are approximately 100,000 residents. I see this as being no more relevant as the people who say things like "MARTA goes no where" which is just plain ridiculous.

I find it funny though that you were lambasting the Beltline being built because the area is supposedly not dense (which isn't true since most of the neighborhoods it goes through are the densest and oldest in the city) and at the same time argue against the city building aspect of the Beltline that will bringing new development and residents. The Beltline is a lot more than just transit, parks, redevelopment. It's about building a new city and taking Atlanta to the next stage.
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Old 08-17-2011, 10:25 AM
 
Location: 30080
2,123 posts, read 3,390,845 times
Reputation: 1461
No sitting traffic? Pick any interstate inside of 285 during rush hour. Better yet try getting from downtown up 75 between 4and 7 and tell me there's no sitting traffic. Just because it's moving at 3mph doesn't mean it isn't sitting. Or better yet 285s from cobb to I20 in the evenings. "Sitting traffic" was the main reason I had to move closer to my job.

Sent from my HTC EVO 3D
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Old 08-17-2011, 10:47 AM
 
Location: Metro Atlanta & Savannah, GA - Corpus Christi, TX
4,344 posts, read 6,925,807 times
Reputation: 2037
Quote:
Originally Posted by brownhornet View Post
No sitting traffic? Pick any interstate inside of 285 during rush hour. Better yet try getting from downtown up 75 between 4and 7 and tell me there's no sitting traffic. Just because it's moving at 3mph doesn't mean it isn't sitting. Or better yet 285s from cobb to I20 in the evenings. "Sitting traffic" was the main reason I had to move closer to my job.

Sent from my HTC EVO 3D
I'm pretty sure waronxmas was talking about the surface streets in the City of Atlanta, not the major arteries. (Omitting streets like Peachtree & Piedmont during peak hours of course)

Maybe it's me, but I haven't EVER seen Ellis Street or JW Dobbs so ridiculously crammed with traffic that it's comparable with 285 at Spaghetti Junction at rush hour. ..just an example.
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Old 08-17-2011, 11:14 AM
 
2,407 posts, read 2,610,549 times
Reputation: 903
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cameron H View Post
Cool, but...I think you meant to reply to K-SawDude. He's the extremist who wants 75% transit.
Oops. My bad.
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Old 08-17-2011, 11:53 AM
 
Location: ITP - City of Atlanta Proper
7,794 posts, read 11,724,981 times
Reputation: 5394
Quote:
Originally Posted by WanderingImport View Post
I'm pretty sure waronxmas was talking about the surface streets in the City of Atlanta, not the major arteries. (Omitting streets like Peachtree & Piedmont during peak hours of course)

Maybe it's me, but I haven't EVER seen Ellis Street or JW Dobbs so ridiculously crammed with traffic that it's comparable with 285 at Spaghetti Junction at rush hour. ..just an example.
That's exactly what I was talking about. The traffic problems OTP aren't really an issue to me given I have always lived and worked in the City of Atlanta/ITP. I have seen before and trust me, y'all have my deepest sympathies though.
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Old 08-17-2011, 12:09 PM
 
906 posts, read 1,440,537 times
Reputation: 468
Quote:
Originally Posted by testa50 View Post
Joking aside, I agree with gtcorndog that we've gotta get this thing to pass, first and foremost. 75/25 would be unacceptable to many/most. I'm not too firm on exactly what the optimal split would be if it were up to me; it is what it is.

What the Cherokee County people should realize is that the train isn't "someone else's" train. It will relieve congestion along the I-75 corridor, where many (many) of them work. It will give those office districts direct access to the airport. All this could be vital to the I-75 corridor competing with the GA 400 corridor, and of course the fortunes of Cobb County's office districts are going to have a big impact, positive or negative, on Cherokee's housing market.

They (and just about everybody else) are also neglecting that one of the most feasible commuter rail routes in the whole metro area is the line that starts north of downtown Marietta and continues north towards Blue Ridge. The track is already owned by the state, and is used for tourist excursions. There have been serious proposals to make it commuter rail, except that it doesn't connect into anything--yet. $856 million just might change that.

edit: this is why I also think the line into Cobb ought to be closer to heavy rail or preferably the same rolling stock as MARTA; no one wants to take commuter rail then have to connect onto a light rail system
You're totally right. I should clarify that I *wish* it were heavier on transit, but I try to be enough of a realist to acknowledge political realities. Without a heavy amount of road proposals, there's just no way to sell this thing to the suburbs.

The weird thing for me at this point is what happened to rail proposals in Gwinnett. I thought I'd heard Gwinnett leaders seemed on-board with a light rail line or MARTA extension proposal or something. But all of those ideas went POOF! So how are they going to pitch the current list to Gwinnett voters? Is there anything major on the list that will get residents in that county to vote for the proposal?
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