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To be more precise, I think light rail in the Beltline is a waste of precious transportation money and will do nothing short run and little long run to help traffic.
I also think it will harm the park/biking/jogging aspect. The beltline is pretty narrow in places and a train can't stop quickly and serves to divide neighborhoods. I think its pretty clear MARTA does that everywhere it is ground level. This will be slower shorter trains, but not that much slower or shorter.
Everything does not revolve around traffic you know. The beltline is about better connecting and increasing mobility within the city.
Architech:I don't follow your logic. The beltline would get lots of usege. Just because YOU wont use it or YOU dont want to go south of downtown doesn't mean that others wont.
MM - I beg to differ with you here. Atlanta needs new green space, it will benefit from having its intown neighborhoods connected and it will give the psyche of the city a boost, which (as is evident by reading even the City-Data posts), it sorely needs. I am sure, too, that it will benefit the area economically (but, no, I have no study to support that belief). I imagine, also, that it will integrate the various areas of intown as they have never been before integrated.
It will be a narrow long ribbon park, a bit confining on either side. It will be a curiosity and perhaps useful for walking, jogging, and biking excursions and events.
And what use is there in this "connection" of neighborhoods? Of what importance is that? Why are they crying for a "connection"? There are a lot of places in Atlanta that aren't and still won't be connected in this way...is this a terrible thing? We do have roads you know. If we are lacking sidewalks between the neighborhoods, will placing them along the roads "connect" our neighborhoods? Or is there no connection without light-rail? I just think this "connection of our neighborhoods" thing is a lame throw-away argument tossed on the pile of justifications. It's meaningless.
Quote:
Atlanta didn't really need MARTA rail when it was first constructed, either. But, now we sure do.
Huh? You must be young or new to Atlanta. Atlanta did need rail. Atlanta was slammed with traffic with 2-lane highways back then. And Atlanta needed additional money to widen the roads too. How else did Atlanta manage to get the funds? You have to sell the Feds with a proven need.
To be more precise, I think light rail in the Beltline is a waste of precious transportation money and will do nothing short run and little long run to help traffic.
I also think it will harm the park/biking/jogging aspect. The beltline is pretty narrow in places and a train can't stop quickly and serves to divide neighborhoods. I think its pretty clear MARTA does that everywhere it is ground level. This will be slower shorter trains, but not that much slower or shorter.
Except that you can walk across LRT tracks, unlike MARTA tracks*. They will try to limit pedestrian crossings I'm sure, but there won't need to be pedestrian flyovers like with heavy rail.
*This is also why Arts Center-Cobb makes more sense as heavy rail. There's not going to be much demand to walk across those tracks, which will often/usually be elevated.
My point is, there are plenty of already existing neighborhoods that can't currently get to a MARTA stop easily. The Beltline will make this much more possible. If it also happens to promote a new westside park AND improve the density and safety around Bankhead, I don't see why that's a bad thing or a misuse of resources.
So, why not put in a bus stop? All buses ultimately terminate at a rail station. And if someone wants to go to the Westside park, it does seem like a very circuitous route for many.
It will be a narrow long ribbon park, a bit confining on either side. It will be a curiosity and perhaps useful for walking, jogging, and biking excursions and events.
And what use is there in this "connection" of neighborhoods? Of what importance is that? Why are they crying for a "connection"? There are a lot of places in Atlanta that aren't and still won't be connected in this way...is this a terrible thing? We do have roads you know. If we are lacking sidewalks between the neighborhoods, will placing them along the roads "connect" our neighborhoods? Or is there no connection without light-rail? I just think this "connection of our neighborhoods" thing is a lame throw-away argument tossed on the pile of justifications. It's meaningless.
Huh? You must be young or new to Atlanta. Atlanta did need rail. Atlanta was slammed with traffic with 2-lane highways back then. And Atlanta needed additional money to widen the roads too. How else did Atlanta manage to get the funds? You have to sell the Feds with a proven need.
MM, I only wish I was young!!!!!!!!! And, no, I've been in Atlanta since 90 and GA since, well, 64... Okay, now I'm really feeling old... But, back to the discussion:
I think most folks would argue that connected neighborhoods make for a better community. I'm not sure I can articulate just why in a forum post, but, I figure it is something folks either "get" or don't get. Seems pretty obvious to most of us, I would venture. I mean, why even have a city if the neighborhoods are independent little unconnected islands accessible only by more congestion causing, pollution making cars???
Further, I recall that MARTA rail was more of a late 60s forward thinking "plan for the future" endeavor, and not one simply designed to alleviate the days traffic woes (remember, the first proposal was proferred to the voters at some point in the late 60s, but construction wasn't begun until the mid-70s). If I recall, too, federal monies were not allocated until after construction commenced, but memory may fail me here.
Regardless, it seems fairly clear that the reasons for the beltline are pretty much are the same as those for MARTA - to connect the city among its neighborhoods, provide transportation between various locales and ease car congestion. No???
Last edited by AnsleyPark; 08-22-2011 at 04:34 PM..
Reason: typos
I fail to see the NEED for the Beltline. What is the necessity of it? The project didn't manifest itself from some need but rather from an idea of a Georgia Tech professor which was given to a grad student for his Masters' Thesis. The Beltline doesn't solve a problem.
Perhaps from Cobb's point of view they don't care as much because the problem is the horrible commute to and from Atlanta, not within Cobb. Rail won't solve the downtown commute problem but it would help those that don't want to hassle with the drive. The problem has been addressed to some extent with buses to Cumberland.
I think regional transit is what is needed more than the Beltline. The Beltline is more of an experiment in urban planning. A rail line from Cobb would address a clear and present problem.
Other people already summed up my thoughts on why the Beltline is needed/beneficial for the city of Atlanta.
However, one thing people fail to realize is that that if this sales tax is approved by voters, Atlanta (as well as Fulton and Dekalb) will be paying 2 extra cents while places like Cobb will only be paying one, so yes... the Beltline should be funded in this referendum.
And like I said earlier, if they would up the money for transit to 75% (right now it is 55% which is way too low) we could build heavy rail to Cobb from Arts Center, build other needed heavy rail extensions, and parts of the Beltline. Roads already have a dedicated source of funding with the gas tax while transit outside of Fulton and Dekalb pretty much have none.
Some large road projects I can support, but looking at the list why are so many of them 100% funded? For example, the 285/400 interchange. 400 has a toll they just extended for a long time, so why don't they use some of that money to fill the gap? I'm sure GDOT could cough up so money for it too... many of these road projects have other sources of funding, and the fact most are 100% funded means they are taking away money from other transit projects that have no source of funding. Isn't that the point of this transportation vote anyways - to make much needed transit improvements we can't afford to build otherwise?
MM, I only wish I was young!!!!!!!!! And, no, I've been in Atlanta since 90 and GA since, well, 64... Okay, now I'm really feeling old... But, back to the discussion:
I think most folks would argue that connected neighborhoods make for a better community. I'm not sure I can articulate just why in a forum post, but, I figure it is something folks either "get" or don't get. Seems pretty obvious to most of us, I would venture. I mean, why even have a city if the neighborhoods are independent little unconnected islands accessible only by more congestion causing, pollution making cars???
Further, I recall that MARTA rail was more of a late 60s forward thinking "plan for the future" endeavor, and not one simply designed to alleviate the days traffic woes (remember, the first proposal was proferred to the voters at some point in the late 60s, but construction wasn't begun until the mid-70s). If I recall, too, federal monies were not allocated until after construction commenced, but memory may fail me here.
Regardless, it seems fairly clear that the reasons for the beltline are pretty much are the same as those for MARTA - to connect the city among its neighborhoods, provide transportation between various locales and ease car congestion. No???
This is exactly why improving public transportation is so important. Because to me... this is what atl feels like... just a lot of independent counties surrounding a weak city center. Even the license plate indicates what county you live in... as if we needed more of a reminder of the imporantance of the county rivalry in this area.
Connectivity makes for a better city. I dont know how you could argue against that. Public transporation makes for a better city. I dont know how you could argue against that. No body wants to do anything in this city. I cant remember the last time I heard of a couple grabbing dinner in the "city." No body wants to deal with the traffic! Heck even braves attenendence is not what it used to be. The beltline is a step in the right direction as far as im concerned.
Other people already summed up my thoughts
Some large road projects I can support, but looking at the list why are so many of them 100% funded? For example, the 285/400 interchange. 400 has a toll they just extended for a long time, so why don't they use some of that money to fill the gap? I'm sure GDOT could cough up so money for it too... many of these road projects have other sources of funding, and the fact most are 100% funded means they are taking away money from other transit projects that have no source of funding. Isn't that the point of this transportation vote anyways - to make much needed transit improvements we can't afford to build otherwise?
Given our limited highway funding, I think we should stretch transporation $ by making any new limited access highways toll-like Sugar Loaf(?) Parkway in Gwinnett. We also should look at tolling the new overpasses on 316 while leaving it free to go through the lights. Other places are looking at that sort of arrangement.
Architech:I don't follow your logic. The beltline would get lots of usege. Just because YOU wont use it or YOU dont want to go south of downtown doesn't mean that others wont.
Also what do you have against the fourth ward?
I lived on Renaissance Pkwy in 4th Ward, and I wouldn't accept a free condo anywhere south of Ponce if someone offered it to me. It sucks, gunshots frequently heard, shady characters constantly asking for money on all streets. Panhandlers inside Walgreens and Publix necessitating permanent police presence outside.
After moving 1 block north of Ponce it's like a different city: clean, safe, i love it.
Rail on the Beltline is a waste because affluent Va. Highlands residents aren't going to be travelling to the west end or the Garnett marta station to walk around and go antiquing. Every neighborhood along the Beltline is vastly different from one another. I don't see a common thread or activity shared by each's residents.
Regardless, it seems fairly clear that the reasons for the beltline are pretty much are the same as those for MARTA - to connect the city among its neighborhoods, provide transportation between various locales and ease car congestion. No???[/quote]
I think the primary reason is to benefit real estate developers. I saw one article describing it as a real estate developers' dream. There's a fair chance it could be their nightmare as well. I don't believe light rail will ease car congestion and may increase it in its present configuration (using city streets in places). Its also clear that the latest configuration hasn't been properly vetted. The whole concept just changed a few months ago.
I also don't believe it will achieve much increase in density. The NW is already dense and may never be tied in because the RR still uses that part of the beltline. The NE and SE are old neighborhoods with single family homes. Does anyone see Virginia Highlands approving a bunch of new apartments and high rises? Grant Park? And SW Atlanta is foreclosure central.
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