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Old 10-10-2011, 07:24 AM
 
Location: Marietta, GA
7,844 posts, read 13,857,313 times
Reputation: 3461

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Quote:
Originally Posted by RandyWatson13 View Post
And there will be 1 million people there in 20 years. We cannot ignore mass transit, we have to offer a viable option.
For the umpteenth time...I don't fundamentally disagree. The distinction with a difference is that we have to get away from the knee jerk reaction that people want to go downtown and that's the place that our investments should go.

As an anecdotal example....I go downtown and beyond on I-75 south at various times of the day. I get on at Delk Rd, and typically traffic eases at the I-285 interchange. I rarely ever see bumper to bumper traffic on I-75 between I-285 and the merge with I-85. Traffic only gets bad after the merge. Contrast that with I-285, where westbound it is usually bad from the river to the I-75 merge, and during evening rush hour can back up from around Perimeter Mall and be stop and go. Morning rush sometimes brings similar backups in the other direction.

To me, the much bigger problem to solve is the commuting around the northern suburbs, not to downtown. What about better transit within Cobb, if you think we need it? How about a way for me to get from West Cobb to East Cobb? As far as going to the airport is concerned, I'm not sure I'm riding the train for an hour from Cobb with my luggage when I can drive there in a comfort quicker. Add my family to the mix, and it's a no brainer. Maybe I'm just different from other people in Cobb, but I don't think I'm significantly different from my neighbors.
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Old 10-10-2011, 10:10 AM
 
Location: ATL
4,688 posts, read 5,999,544 times
Reputation: 1804
I'm watching "High Tech Monorails" on the Travel Channel. I need to record this and send it to Ga DOT
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Old 10-10-2011, 05:28 PM
 
Location: Atlanta
969 posts, read 1,545,768 times
Reputation: 623
Quote:
Originally Posted by neil0311 View Post
For the umpteenth time...I don't fundamentally disagree. The distinction with a difference is that we have to get away from the knee jerk reaction that people want to go downtown and that's the place that our investments should go.

As an anecdotal example....I go downtown and beyond on I-75 south at various times of the day. I get on at Delk Rd, and typically traffic eases at the I-285 interchange. I rarely ever see bumper to bumper traffic on I-75 between I-285 and the merge with I-85. Traffic only gets bad after the merge. Contrast that with I-285, where westbound it is usually bad from the river to the I-75 merge, and during evening rush hour can back up from around Perimeter Mall and be stop and go. Morning rush sometimes brings similar backups in the other direction.

To me, the much bigger problem to solve is the commuting around the northern suburbs, not to downtown. What about better transit within Cobb, if you think we need it? How about a way for me to get from West Cobb to East Cobb? As far as going to the airport is concerned, I'm not sure I'm riding the train for an hour from Cobb with my luggage when I can drive there in a comfort quicker. Add my family to the mix, and it's a no brainer. Maybe I'm just different from other people in Cobb, but I don't think I'm significantly different from my neighbors.
Nobody is saying there should not be "suburb to suburb" links, but you also need to link the suburbs with Downtown and the Airport. You can't just ignore that link - it would make no sense. And nobody is going to take a train from West Cobb to East Cobb... neither of those areas are job centers. A train from West Cobb (Powder Springs area) and North Cobb (Acworth/Kennesaw) to Cumberland, Downtown, and Perimeter would make sense. Take a look at this plan by GDOT (with projected costs and ridership):

http://www.flickr.com/photos/23652876@N08/6231894465/ (broken link)

Now imagine if we built a light rail line or extended the MARTA heavy rail line across the Perimeter, from Norcross or Doraville to Cumberland (with transfers to commuter rail lines of course so it's not just a "hub and spoke system" and stations at major office complexes within the Perimeter) and then extended MARTA from North Springs up to Windward Parkway in Alpharetta. This would give pretty much everyone in the 10 county area an alternative to driving to every major job center in metro Atlanta. This would also be a huge economic boost we desperately need - it would really move us way ahead of our competition.

The sad part is we could do all of this with the transportation tax referendum if it was 100% transit projects only, but unfortunately we live in Georgia... and that just won't happen.
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Old 10-10-2011, 06:05 PM
 
Location: East Side of ATL
3,777 posts, read 5,231,563 times
Reputation: 1500
Quote:
Originally Posted by neil0311 View Post
Can you quantify your statement? Where is the ridership analysis done for a potential rail line from midtown to Cumberland or for the existing bus lines? If you take into consideration that Cobb County has roughly 700K residents, then I'd love to know what percentage uses CCT each day? 5%? 10%?
Feb 2011 for the GRTA lines out of Cobb County:

480
Acworth
Downtown
291 daily riders

481
Town Center
Midtown
170 daily riders.

490
Canton / Woodstock
Downtown

211 daily riders.

491
Woodstock
Midtown

131 daily riders.

Cobb has some of the worst ridership.

Henry, Dekalb, Rockdale and Douglas have some of the best ridership on GRTA.
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Old 10-10-2011, 07:04 PM
 
Location: Atlanta
969 posts, read 1,545,768 times
Reputation: 623
Quote:
Originally Posted by PKCorey View Post
Feb 2011 for the GRTA lines out of Cobb County:

480
Acworth
Downtown
291 daily riders

481
Town Center
Midtown
170 daily riders.

490
Canton / Woodstock
Downtown

211 daily riders.

491
Woodstock
Midtown

131 daily riders.

Cobb has some of the worst ridership.

Henry, Dekalb, Rockdale and Douglas have some of the best ridership on GRTA.
Thanks for the numbers - I don't think CCT ridership stats are a good indicator of how successful a rail line will be though. These buses just sit in regular traffic (no HOV or express lanes in Cobb yet) and their service is very limited.
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Old 10-10-2011, 11:19 PM
 
Location: Georgia
4,564 posts, read 3,494,484 times
Reputation: 2235
Quote:
Originally Posted by testa50 View Post
NS is most definitely a no-go. Their line to Mableton is one of the single most important freight corridors in the eastern US.

CSX, on the other hand, is more interesting. First of all, that's the line you're talking about: through Vinings and Marietta and up to Acworth. This is a very important line for CSX too, but not quite as vital as the NS one.

CSX has partially upgraded the line to double track, but some of it is still single track. The whole thing will have to be upgraded (read: new bridge over Chattahoochee) more than likely.

One problem is the line would cross through Howell Mill Junction, which is one of the biggest freight bottlenecks in the eastern US and can almost definitely not support a score of fast-moving, high-priority trains every day. There might be some possible workarounds, but this is a major road block. Going the last mile to get to downtown is going to be very tricky.
Are you talking about that huge rail yard in NW Atlanta, or closer to downtown than that?
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Old 10-11-2011, 09:47 AM
 
3,151 posts, read 4,213,909 times
Reputation: 1637
Quote:
Originally Posted by toll_booth View Post
Are you talking about that huge rail yard in NW Atlanta, or closer to downtown than that?
Here is a quick sketch of Howell Mill Junction to the best of my understanding:



CSX lines are red, NS lines are blue, interchange lines are black

The line between Atlanta and Marietta is the double-red line. Marietta (and onward to Chicago) is up to the left, downtown Atlanta (and onward to Savannah, Florida, and Mobile) is down to the right. Straight up is CSX's mainline to New York.

NS's mainline runs generally south of the CSX mainline, except for the full wye that crosses CSX's double mainline, which is the NS's route to Washington DC (the Amtrak station is in that direction).

So yeah, basically this spot is a six-way intersection between two railroads, and it all crosses at grade. Due to the turnouts and curves and the sensitivity of rail to grades, grade separation is impossible without some massive, massive rework.
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Old 10-11-2011, 10:34 AM
 
Location: Georgia
4,564 posts, read 3,494,484 times
Reputation: 2235
Quote:
Originally Posted by testa50 View Post
Here is a quick sketch of Howell Mill Junction to the best of my understanding:



CSX lines are red, NS lines are blue, interchange lines are black

The line between Atlanta and Marietta is the double-red line. Marietta (and onward to Chicago) is up to the left, downtown Atlanta (and onward to Savannah, Florida, and Mobile) is down to the right. Straight up is CSX's mainline to New York.

NS's mainline runs generally south of the CSX mainline, except for the full wye that crosses CSX's double mainline, which is the NS's route to Washington DC (the Amtrak station is in that direction).

So yeah, basically this spot is a six-way intersection between two railroads, and it all crosses at grade. Due to the turnouts and curves and the sensitivity of rail to grades, grade separation is impossible without some massive, massive rework.
Hmm. That is indeed going to be tough to get a commuter rail line through there. But grade separation might be worse--with freight rail, the maximum grade requirements are exceptionally low. At least they have some space inside that yard to build junction tracks if they need to. I don't know enough, however, to definitively say if that would be enough.
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Old 10-12-2011, 01:18 AM
 
2,973 posts, read 7,910,342 times
Reputation: 1648
Here is a recent article:

Metro transportation list nearly done *| ajc.com

The news isn't all bad for the rail corridors. It may not be enough to cover the costs of building the rail lines, but it will help get them started.
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Old 10-12-2011, 05:41 AM
 
Location: ATL
4,688 posts, read 5,999,544 times
Reputation: 1804
What's up with these million dollar rail studies?
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