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Old 07-09-2011, 11:23 AM
 
876 posts, read 1,058,454 times
Reputation: 243
I think the higher salaries for high school teachers in math and science would attract more talent, not so sure about people who teach humanities / arts / languages. Often the teachers who are working in the arts fields usually would not pull a *good* salary in the private sector, but this is not the case often for people with hard science degrees.

In my opinion, the administrators are too many in number and overpaid in most urban public school districts or suburban ones for that matter. Those "people" managers need to be rotated back into the classroom from time to time to teach, so they do not lose touch with why they have their higher-up jobs. Many of the administrators were, of course, teachers earlier in their careers and *some* of these administrators need reality checks or worse yet, lose their jobs due to being complicit in being incompetent by condoning the cheating and engaging in other unprofessional activity that encouraged rampant cheating. It starts at the top and rolls downhill, as one might say in a cleaned up form online.

I know there are dedicated teachers, but this wide-spread cheating issue is a huge problem for the metro Atlanta's image with public schools, especially since it got national attention. Most outsiders as you know, do not know the difference between APS or most of the surrounding suburban counties even by name.

So, the average non-Georgian may look at the entire metro as having crappy public schools, many think that way without scandal and in part because Atlanta is in Georgia. Many of us here of course, know this is not completely true, but give it some thought if you haven't. Georgia has some great public schools all over the state, but there are many under-performing ones if you go by test score averages.

There is a lot of work to be done in APS to get over this scandal. I don't know the answers to fix this problem, but this scandal is just awful for the entire region and mostly for the students they were supposed to teach.

Last edited by SW30303; 07-09-2011 at 11:49 AM..
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Old 07-09-2011, 11:33 AM
 
75 posts, read 54,224 times
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Why do I get afeeling that this is all a plot to take away the black power in the black mecca.!!!

~Markesha
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Old 07-09-2011, 11:40 AM
 
Location: Atlanta, GA (Dunwoody)
2,036 posts, read 2,466,620 times
Reputation: 923
Quote:
Anyway, money should be the least important factor for anyone considering entering the profession. It's just the nature of our education system that prevents us from paying teachers relatively high salaries.
I call shenanigans on the bolded. Why should teachers not consider salaries? They have to live just like everybody else. Right now there's a brain drain in American education. My nephew who teaches biology (and coaches basketball)was offered a six-figure salary plus free housing and healthcare overseas. The rest of values teachers and education. We value neither and have the results to prove it.
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Old 07-09-2011, 11:47 AM
 
Location: Atlanta
714 posts, read 321,101 times
Reputation: 195
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zel Ya View Post
With higher salaries, I think there would be more than enough great teachers to go around. Highly competent people usually avoid the teaching profession due to the low salaries.

If certain problems and impediments to learning can be addressed at an early age, and hopefully solved, that will not only be a boost to their education but to their self-esteem as well.
Surely you arent suggesting, given the tremendous problems with ALL LEVELS of govt finances/spending, the City of Atlanta should increase their outlays significantly? Surely...

The other aspect is, if salaries increase to "attract good people", it also attracts the "greedy". Thus, doing so may bring in just the kind of people that caused this problem in the first place (unprincipled/selfish/crooks).

Schools and teachers dont have ultimate responsibility for students self-esteem. PARENTS have to take the lead on that.
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Old 07-09-2011, 11:55 AM
 
Location: Arlington, Va
2,063 posts, read 1,767,107 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RoslynHolcomb View Post
I call shenanigans on the bolded. Why should teachers not consider salaries? They have to live just like everybody else. Right now there's a brain drain in American education. My nephew who teaches biology (and coaches basketball)was offered a six-figure salary plus free housing and healthcare overseas. The rest of values teachers and education. We value neither and have the results to prove it.
I never said they should NEVER consider salaries but there are some fields that you just shouldn't go into for the money. What about cops, firefighters, the military(enlisted)? Do you think those will ever be high paying jobs? Those people actually risk their lives and can be considered underpaid. Do you think the majority of those people are in those professions for the money or for something else? Something intangible? Teachers in Atlanta start out around $40K which is not a pauper's salary. They get great benefits and have relatively decent job stability. They can manage fine. People with a lot less mange to do so.

We cannot afford to pay teachers a high salary. Maybe if we'd stop measuring peoples' true worth by the size of their bank account then maybe that brain drain would stop but it says something about someone who would jump careers based strictly on the amount of money they can make. I could have stayed in law school and possibly made well into the six figures as a lawyer but I didn't because all the money in the world isn't worth being miserable doing something I don't enjoy.

All I'm saying is if you want to make big money, going into teaching is not the way to do it.
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Old 07-09-2011, 12:00 PM
 
Location: Atlanta
714 posts, read 321,101 times
Reputation: 195
Quote:
Originally Posted by RoslynHolcomb View Post
I call shenanigans on the bolded. Why should teachers not consider salaries? They have to live just like everybody else. Right now there's a brain drain in American education. My nephew who teaches biology (and coaches basketball)was offered a six-figure salary plus free housing and healthcare overseas. The rest of values teachers and education. We value neither and have the results to prove it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by arjay57 View Post
Money is not the problem with City of Atlanta schools. They are incredibly well funded. We spend more money per student than any system in the state, and more than big city systems like LA and Chicago. In the last 10 years alone, APS has spent over $1 billion on new and upgraded facilities, and it spends another $600 million in local funds every year on salaries and operations. That doesn't include millions more they receive in federal funds, free lunch and breakfast programs, state and lottery money, and grants from individuals and charitable organisations like the Gates, Blank and Ford Foundations.

And needless to say, we've spent a fortune on scores of highly paid administrators and a superintendent who makes around $500,000 a year including a private limo and a chauffeur who's paid $100,000 a year.

So lack of money or resources has not been the problem.
If money is THE issue, which apparently its not in Atlanta, why didnt the cheating teachers go to the private sector for the "big money"?

Most teachers or schools dont cheat. If a teacher doesnt like how much he/she is paid, then they should do something else. They should not cheat, and then blame it on "the system". So very lame.

At a minimum, teachers that want still more money should be prepared to offer, in exchange, greater transparency, accountability and higher standards.

Note: Most private sector workers do not have anything like teacher pensions. Public School Teachers are already grossly overpaid in this area.
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Old 07-09-2011, 12:12 PM
 
Location: Atlanta, GA (Dunwoody)
2,036 posts, read 2,466,620 times
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Quote:
If money is THE issue, which apparently its not in Atlanta, why didnt the cheating teachers go to the private sector for the "big money"?
I don't know about Atlanta, but here in DeKalb most of the money goes to administrators NOT teachers. It would seem to me that the pie needs to be reshuffled significantly. If we can't afford to pay teachers more, perhaps we can find to pay administrators less.
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Old 07-09-2011, 01:00 PM
 
Location: Tampa, FL
3,238 posts, read 1,558,476 times
Reputation: 1492
Want to bet NO one goes to jail because doing so would be "racist"?
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Old 07-09-2011, 02:40 PM
 
6,255 posts, read 3,605,152 times
Reputation: 1522
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zel Ya View Post
With higher salaries, I think there would be more than enough great teachers to go around. Highly competent people usually avoid the teaching profession due to the low salaries.

Adopting and enforcing strict codes of classroom discipline will allow teachers to actually teach. That's what they're trained to do. Maintaining school discipline is a huge problem for many public schools.

Our public educational school system continues to receive poor marks compared to other countries. And seemingly with each passing year, the marks are not improving.

Teachers with advanced degrees should be employed at all grade levels. Especially for young children. If certain problems and impediments to learning can be addressed at an early age, and hopefully solved, that will not only be a boost to their education but to their self-esteem as well.
Highly competent people probably rather do challenging work rather than play "mind-games" with kids. And from some of the stories coming out about the APS system, it sounds as if "little napoleons" make up the principals. I've heard of so many teachers fed up with their administrators of the school.

I wouldn't want to teach because I don't want a class of students that have to be there. And I absolutely hate having a "fool" as a supervisor. Anyone over me must be worthy of the position.

I haven't heard much talk of trying to emulate school systems in other countries. Especially those that produce the best results. Are they that much different or does their culture take school more seriously? I think school uniforms would be a good idea but I'm surprised by the amount of opposition. Kids wearing baggy pants with a t-shirt and a baseball cap with its bill slightly askew are not likely to excel.
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Old 07-09-2011, 04:39 PM
 
8,617 posts, read 11,275,518 times
Reputation: 1912
Quote:
Originally Posted by MathmanMathman View Post
Highly competent people probably rather do challenging work rather than play "mind-games" with kids. And from some of the stories coming out about the APS system, it sounds as if "little napoleons" make up the principals. I've heard of so many teachers fed up with their administrators of the school.

I wouldn't want to teach because I don't want a class of students that have to be there. And I absolutely hate having a "fool" as a supervisor. Anyone over me must be worthy of the position.

I haven't heard much talk of trying to emulate school systems in other countries. Especially those that produce the best results. Are they that much different or does their culture take school more seriously? I think school uniforms would be a good idea but I'm surprised by the amount of opposition. Kids wearing baggy pants with a t-shirt and a baseball cap with its bill slightly askew are not likely to excel.

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BCTF > Finland
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