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Old 07-09-2011, 06:00 PM
 
2,564 posts, read 3,595,911 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aries4118 View Post
Thing is...

Finland's population is just slightly higher than Alabama's so it's probably a lot easier to implement things on a national level.
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Old 07-09-2011, 06:15 PM
 
12,948 posts, read 21,050,130 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DTL3000 View Post
Thing is...

Finland's population is just slightly higher than Alabama's so it's probably a lot easier to implement things on a national level.

But a lot of the point is...

Their model has been to de-centralize/de-nationalize--with more control/initiatives at the local level. The size of the country really does not matter.




What really matters is...

How they approach education (standards, testing, curriculum, teacher professionalism, teacher-training, teacher status, addressing child/societal poverty, etc.).

Last edited by aries4118; 07-09-2011 at 07:06 PM..
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Old 07-09-2011, 06:23 PM
 
Location: Atlanta
3,463 posts, read 4,122,478 times
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Great articles you posted, Aries.

I can't help but wonder: Why aren't our educators in this country demanding true reform? They are on the front lines so they have the most to win or lose whenever some politician wants to tinker with the American education system.

The public school educators of America should be starting a civil rights movement for education reform and yet it seems that far too many are on this "I get mines, you get yours" nonsense. There are way too many people trying to game the system rather than trying to change the system.

We all suffer as a result of this insular parochialistic mentality.

Quote:
Originally Posted by aries4118 View Post
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Old 07-09-2011, 06:40 PM
 
Location: Atlanta
3,463 posts, read 4,122,478 times
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Exactly.

Finland's approach is actually more entrepreneurial when you think about it. They give the teachers more leeway to be creative with their lesson plans.

Plus, it's actually pretty hard to get into the teaching field in Finland because it is so competitive. The pay is high comparatively speaking, so Finland is able to hire the cream of the crop. It's about like hiring Harvard or Yale-level graduates to be teachers.

It will be a major miracle from God if Americans can even convince one state to reform its Pulic education system along those lines, let alone the whole country. This regressive provincial-thought process that so extremely popular right now may lead to the downfall of the U.S.A.

How did our country go from adopting so many traits of other countries like Britain's Magna Carta and Louisiana's patterning its state laws after the French legal code & Roman law to adopting this nonsensical corporate ultra-religious jingoistic conservatism? It's like we bash everything foreign now without rhyme or reason. "Freedom fries" my butt.

What a drag...

Quote:
Originally Posted by aries4118 View Post
But a lot of the point is...

Their model has been to de-centralize/de-nationalize--with more control/initiatives at the local level. The size of the country really does not matter.




What really matters is...

How they approach education (standards, testing, curriculum, teacher professionalism, teacher-training, teacher status, etc.).
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Old 07-09-2011, 06:45 PM
 
Location: ATLANTA
200 posts, read 380,021 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AcidSnake View Post
Great articles you posted, Aries.

I can't help but wonder: Why aren't our educators in this country demanding true reform? They are on the front lines so they have the most to win or lose whenever some politician wants to tinker with the American education system.

The public school educators of America should be starting a civil rights movement for education reform and yet it seems that far too many are on this "I get mines, you get yours" nonsense. There are way too many people trying to game the system rather than trying to change the system.

We all suffer as a result of this insular parochialistic mentality.
I agree and that "I got mine" mentality is usually the suburban district looking down on the inner-city districts. I also agree that there has to be some kind of national reform on education in this country.
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Old 07-09-2011, 06:54 PM
 
Location: Atlanta
3,463 posts, read 4,122,478 times
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Even if just one state would try to truely reform and revolutionize its Public school system so that children from all walks of life can have an opportunity to enjoy a high quality education, I would be happy. At least then there would be a good example for other states to go by.

In this country unfortunately, you have to start large and end up small.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dytdude View Post
I agree and that "I got mine" mentality is usually the suburban district looking down on the inner-city districts. I also agree that there has to be some kind of national reform on education in this country.
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Old 07-09-2011, 07:14 PM
 
12,948 posts, read 21,050,130 times
Reputation: 4101
Quote:
Originally Posted by AcidSnake View Post
Great articles you posted, Aries.

I can't help but wonder: Why aren't our educators in this country demanding true reform? They are on the front lines so they have the most to win or lose whenever some politician wants to tinker with the American education system.

The public school educators of America should be starting a civil rights movement for education reform...

Um, they are:

Save Our Schools March and National Call to Action

Why teachers, parents are planning ‘Save Our Schools’ march - The Answer Sheet - The Washington Post

http://www.change.org/petitions/pres...ve-our-schools

Diane Ravitch on why I'm marching on Washington - Substance News




More helpful information for you, Brother Acid:

Living in Dialogue - Education Week Teacher

Bridging Differences - Education Week

Yong Zhao » Blog
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Old 07-09-2011, 07:39 PM
 
7,113 posts, read 8,134,284 times
Reputation: 1777
Don't forget that Finland is a highly homogeneous country. They have shared values and culture.

In the US, the culture is very diverse with competing agendas from different groups as to what our children should learn. Curriculum is "inclusive" driven so that every group's contribution must be included no matter how insignificant compared to the overall picture.

When people can't even find the US on the map, it's clear we are not teaching the right stuff. I've been tutoring people trying to pass the Math section of the GED and grown adults can't even solve an equation like:

2x + 3 = 9



I have some doubts about that NEA article when I saw this:

Quote:
As an example, I am going to briefly describe how Finland built a strong educational system, nearly from the ground up. Finland was not succeeding educationally in the 1970s, when the United States was the unquestioned education leader in the world.
Nonsense. There were complaints about the inadequacy of US schools and poor teacher pay back then.

and

Quote:
Finland has been a poster child for school improvement since it rapidly climbed to the top of the international rankings after it emerged from the Soviet Union’s shadow.
What? Finland was never an Eastern Block country.

I think the call for "education reform" is sort of like "immigration reform". It's more to further a political agenda rather than actually addressing the issue.

Anyway, what I got from the article is that teacher's should be well-trained up through the Masters' level (this is possible) and should be empowered to teach the class in a decentralized atmosphere. (Ha! Fat chance education leaders and administrators will give up power) Sort of calls into question if we need a Department of Education at the federal level.

Although the story does seem to be a proponent of a socialist type approach in many places but my favorite was "The egalitarian Finns".
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Old 07-09-2011, 07:58 PM
 
12,948 posts, read 21,050,130 times
Reputation: 4101
Quote:
Originally Posted by MathmanMathman View Post
Don't forget that Finland is a highly homogeneous country. They have shared values and culture.

In the US, the culture is very diverse with competing agendas from different groups as to what our children should learn. Curriculum is "inclusive" driven so that every group's contribution must be included no matter how insignificant compared to the overall picture.

When people can't even find the US on the map, it's clear we are not teaching the right stuff. I've been tutoring people trying to pass the Math section of the GED and grown adults can't even solve an equation like:

2x + 3 = 9



I have some doubts about that NEA article when I saw this:



Nonsense. There were complaints about the inadequacy of US schools and poor teacher pay back then.

and



What? Finland was never an Eastern Block country.

I think the call for "education reform" is sort of like "immigration reform". It's more to further a political agenda rather than actually addressing the issue.

Anyway, what I got from the article is that teacher's should be well-trained up through the Masters' level (this is possible) and should be empowered to teach the class in a decentralized atmosphere. (Ha! Fat chance education leaders and administrators will give up power) Sort of calls into question if we need a Department of Education at the federal level.

Although the story does seem to be a proponent of a socialist type approach in many places but my favorite was "The egalitarian Finns".

OK--reread the first link.


Finland is not as homogeneous as people think. This is the instant reactionary reply from those with a conservative agenda.

The article in the first link actually addresses this when it talks about the immigrant communities in many of Finland's urban areas. Many schools with immigrant/second-language learner rates well above 50%.

Moreover, the homogeniety of the country (or area) does not matter. The point is that this is a universal approach on how to educate young humans--whether the population is homogeneous or heterogeneous.

One of the links talked about how the Finnish model adeptly allows teachers to effectively deal with students' individual needs (class size is a major element in making for a better learning/teaching environment).
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Old 07-09-2011, 08:11 PM
 
Location: Atlanta
3,463 posts, read 4,122,478 times
Reputation: 2162
You've made some logical points in lot of cases Mathman, but I feel that you got it totally wrong in this case. You've done a lot of complaining but you've offered very little in terms of solutions or what you would think should be proper in terms of education reform.

How about you toss your fellow city-data posters a bone on what you think should be the right path for America's public education system, eh?

Quote:
Originally Posted by MathmanMathman View Post
Don't forget that Finland is a highly homogeneous country. They have shared values and culture.

In the US, the culture is very diverse with competing agendas from different groups as to what our children should learn. Curriculum is "inclusive" driven so that every group's contribution must be included no matter how insignificant compared to the overall picture.

When people can't even find the US on the map, it's clear we are not teaching the right stuff. I've been tutoring people trying to pass the Math section of the GED and grown adults can't even solve an equation like:

2x + 3 = 9



I have some doubts about that NEA article when I saw this:



Nonsense. There were complaints about the inadequacy of US schools and poor teacher pay back then.

and



What? Finland was never an Eastern Block country.

I think the call for "education reform" is sort of like "immigration reform". It's more to further a political agenda rather than actually addressing the issue.

Anyway, what I got from the article is that teacher's should be well-trained up through the Masters' level (this is possible) and should be empowered to teach the class in a decentralized atmosphere. (Ha! Fat chance education leaders and administrators will give up power) Sort of calls into question if we need a Department of Education at the federal level.

Although the story does seem to be a proponent of a socialist type approach in many places but my favorite was "The egalitarian Finns".
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
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