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Old 07-07-2011, 09:49 AM
 
1,120 posts, read 2,228,755 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RoslynHolcomb View Post

I never put very much faith in test scores. I like to meet my child's teachers and the administrators. I'm a pretty good judge of character and generally take my measure that way. DeKalb frightens me not because I don't think my child is getting a good education, but because I see myself surrounded by kids who I know AREN'T getting a good education. Those are the kids that in a few years will be gunning for my kid. And that scares the life out of me.

Kids AREN'T getting a good education. I agree.

I graduated from college in the early '70s.

One of the universities I attended for a year, had an unsually high number of students obtaining degrees in education. There were a few bright and stellar students, but for the most part the vast majority of the students were quite unremarkable and anything but stellar.

While attending this one particular university, I always had puzzling doubts as to how these graduates, with degrees in education no less, could possibly be proficient and capable teachers.

Of course most of the college students majoring in education were quite young at the time, and it's possible some of them became more career-oriented, focused, and goal-oriented after college. Some!

Regardless, though, too many of students I observed obviously lacked the talent and intellectual capacity to enter the teaching profession.

On the other hand, talent and intellectual capacity doesn't automatically guarantee a good teacher, either. I've seen college professors with doctorates, and other advanced degrees, with poor presentation and interpersonal skills.

But our elementary educational system cannot thrive with low salaries. I'm speaking in terms of teachers and NOT school administrators. Proficient teachers, with great expertise, should be commanding better salaries. School systems should require teachers with more advanced degrees. That would be one step in the right direction.

The future of our country is our children. If we're not willing to provide our children with great teachers, earning great salaries, we should not be surprised by cheating scandals like we're currently witnessing.
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Old 07-07-2011, 10:35 AM
 
1,498 posts, read 2,552,079 times
Reputation: 550
Beverly Hall is a thug. I am glad Mayor Reed is actually acknowledging the problem, but an internal audit should have been conducted a long time ago. The most annoying thing, besides the adverse effects on the children's education, is the effects this will have on Atlanta's national reputation.

Also, why in the hell are there nine board members? I suppose this is because APS is a jobs program, just like every other bureaucratic agency in Atlanta city government. There should be five members for a school system of Atlanta's size.
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Old 07-07-2011, 10:47 AM
 
Location: Atlanta, GA (Dunwoody)
2,047 posts, read 3,883,539 times
Reputation: 957
Quote:
But our elementary educational system cannot thrive with low salaries. I'm speaking in terms of teachers and NOT school administrators. Proficient teachers, with great expertise, should be commanding better salaries. School systems should require teachers with more advanced degrees. That would be one step in the right direction.
I agree wholeheartedly with this. We will never get the type teachers our children deserve without paying them a decent salary. My niece, who is absolutely the best teacher I've ever known. (Let me put it this way, when she was still in high school she got me through two grad school level statistics classes. The professor I had was perfectly useless. She's the only person I know who could explain regression analysis in a way that I could actually understand.) She had all types of offers coming out of undergrad, but more than anything she wanted to teach high school math because she had so many bad teachers herself. Well, she's been a teacher (and basketball coach) for five years and the bureaucracy has driven her away. She's going to Harvard at the end of the month to get her doctorate in statistics.

High quality, intelligent people are not going to deal with the low salaries and endless bureaucracy we inflict on our teachers. Most of those endless forms and paperwork were created by people who have no talent themselves who are totally lacking in intellect or imagination. I've never been a teacher but as a former social worker I can tell you that I had to deal with the same thing. Those talentless hacks you encountered in the 70s are not just teachers they're administrators. And they're driving anyone who has even a modicum of brilliance right out of the system.
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Old 07-07-2011, 11:08 AM
 
28,189 posts, read 24,782,755 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zel Ya View Post
But our elementary educational system cannot thrive with low salaries. I'm speaking in terms of teachers and NOT school administrators. Proficient teachers, with great expertise, should be commanding better salaries. School systems should require teachers with more advanced degrees. That would be one step in the right direction.
Excellent points!

Personally I think top teachers should be paid as much or more than administrators. The idea that administrators are somehow more valuable or "on top" of teachers in the hierarchy is upside down. School administrators should serve with the goal of facilitating teachers, rather than vice versa.
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Old 07-07-2011, 01:10 PM
 
7,113 posts, read 8,140,068 times
Reputation: 1777
A USA Today story features a long 11 Alive news report. The more we learn the worse and worse it looks.

Atlanta public school exams fudged - USATODAY.com

The problem seems systemic (the next story)

Atlanta public school exams fudged - USATODAY.com


The APS should be put on probation immediately and placed under State of Georgia control.

It will be a long time before I'll entertain any suggestion to newcomers that the APS schools are great for their kids. And if you are a young aspiring new teacher, avoid the APS.

Last edited by MathmanMathman; 07-07-2011 at 01:34 PM..
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Old 07-07-2011, 01:33 PM
 
7,113 posts, read 8,140,068 times
Reputation: 1777
Quote:
Originally Posted by Zel Ya View Post
But our elementary educational system cannot thrive with low salaries. I'm speaking in terms of teachers and NOT school administrators. Proficient teachers, with great expertise, should be commanding better salaries. School systems should require teachers with more advanced degrees. That would be one step in the right direction.

The future of our country is our children. If we're not willing to provide our children with great teachers, earning great salaries, we should not be surprised by cheating scandals like we're currently witnessing.
There is probably not enough great teachers to go around. And what additional degrees should be required? We are talking about teaching elementary and middle school kids. Should we demand teachers with Masters' degrees in pedagogy?

The curriculum is not demanding, it's more skills in dealing with children. I think for elementary school, an education degree is sufficient. For middle school, I think the teacher should have at least a minor in the area he or she wishes to teach. High school should require a degree in the area to be taught. In high school, the terminal math program is calculus. If you can get a degree in Math, calculus is a snap.
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Old 07-07-2011, 02:49 PM
 
28,189 posts, read 24,782,755 times
Reputation: 9575
Quote:
Originally Posted by MathmanMathman View Post
It will be a long time before I'll entertain any suggestion to newcomers that the APS schools are great for their kids. And if you are a young aspiring new teacher, avoid the APS.
This reminds me of the Georgia Tech cheating scandal. Cheating at Tech was systemic and involved literally dozens of students.

It will be a long time before I'll entertain any suggestion to newcomers that Georgia Tech is great for their kids. And if you are a young aspiring new teacher, avoid Georgia Tech.

And I don't care what department you're in. The whole university was permanently tainted.
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Old 07-07-2011, 02:52 PM
 
538 posts, read 756,721 times
Reputation: 319
At some point we just need to realize that some kids aren't college material. Their future is to have a job that involves saying "would you like fries with that".....what is going to happen next year when the teachers and administrators in the APS system are too scared to cheat and 90% of the kids fail the CRCT? If a dog can't jump over the fence no amount of beating him will make him jump the fence.....its reality.
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Old 07-07-2011, 02:54 PM
 
538 posts, read 756,721 times
Reputation: 319
Quote:
Originally Posted by MathmanMathman View Post
It will be a long time before I'll entertain any suggestion to newcomers that the APS schools are great for their kids. And if you are a young aspiring new teacher, avoid the APS.
Did you ever seriously suggest to any newcomer that the APS system was a great place to send their kids?
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Old 07-07-2011, 03:16 PM
 
28,189 posts, read 24,782,755 times
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The top schools in APS were cleared of any cheating. At Springdale Park, Smith and Mary Lin, virtually all students met or exceeded CRCT test requirements. I feel for the hardworking and outstanding teachers, students and principals there.

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