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Some of the posters on this thread are all about hating on Atlanta and its leadership and little else. Nothing but a bunch of "Willie One-notes" on here who focus narrowly in a typically southern-like provincial and vapid way on the people involved and not on the system.
That's why I find it a pointless exercise to even continue this conversation with some of them as they lack the nuanced thought process necessary to even appreciate the reality that there could be other factors contributing to the cheating scandal.
Better you than me, johnatl.
Quote:
Originally Posted by johnatl
You need to call them. Ask them to rerun the story on Pennsylvanias 35 separate districts that are unraveling.
Funny how you have yet to acknowledge that, despite your claim that Atlanta and the South somehow own this type of behavior.
Last edited by AcidSnake; 07-16-2011 at 04:06 AM..
I've never advocated any of that as a replacement for standard English. But if that's what it takes to bring kids into the educational mainstream so be it. It's better than leaving them out of the system altogether.
Deplorable and decadent way of thinking, the path of least resistance, feel good policy, isn't it? Teaching lazy speech does nothing to educate anyone. Have you ever tried to correct essays from middle schoolers? They write how they speak. They make-up adjectives, adverbs and nouns that never existed. They do not understand the basics of English grammar structure, let alone spell. They cannot discern English from whatever they speak. They have no reading comprehension because guess what? Whatever they speak to make them comfy is NOT what makes US competitive in technology, reasearch, science... They cannot write intelligently, heck they cannot EXPRESS THEIR OWN THOUGHTS COHERENTLY. How do you expect ANYONE to achieve anything without the basics of PROPER ENGLISH speech or writing?
I'd be the first to agree that standardized tests are not the sole measure of what kids are learning in school.
It's also obvious that teachers and administrators who are obsessed with "teaching to the test" rather than making sure their students can read, write and know basic math, science and social studies are not worth their salt. You don't need a degree in education or a $500,000 salary to know that.
However, here's what the apologists for Dr. Hall and APS are missing:
(1) Standardized tests are one way to assess how students are doing. They're far from perfect, yet they are widely acknowledged as one way of seeing how your kids are doing.
(2) A number of schools in APS -- Mary Lin, Sarah Smith, Springdale Park, etc. -- handled these standardized tests with flying colors and with no cheating whatsoever. This is also true of countless other schools around metro Atlanta and the rest of the planet.
(2) If Dr. Hall and her corps of highly paid assistants and teachers believed these tests were bogus, why did they continually brag about them as proof of their success?
(3) Why didn't they speak out against the tests, when they were in a unique position to do so and were being paid huge salaries to exercise their professional expertise?
(4) Why did they change the results and lie about it?
(5) Why did they continue to pocket large salaries and accumulate pensions based on things they considered to be false and damaging to the children in their charge?
(6) Why did they authorize the expenditure of billions of dollars of public money to further a system they believed to be fundamentally flawed and not in the interests of students or the community?
(7) Why did they persist in doing these things year after year, for a decade?
I'd be the first to agree that standardized tests are not the sole measure of what kids are learning in school.
It's also obvious that teachers and administrators who are obsessed with "teaching to the test" rather than making sure their students can read, write and know basic math, science and social studies are not worth their salt. You don't need a degree in education or a $500,000 salary to know that.
However, here's what the apologists for Dr. Hall and APS are missing:
(1) Standardized tests are one way to assess how students are doing. They're far from perfect, yet they are widely acknowledged as one way of seeing how your kids are doing.
(2) A number of schools in APS -- Mary Lin, Sarah Smith, Springdale Park, etc. -- handled these standardized tests with flying colors and with no cheating whatsoever. This is also true of countless other schools around metro Atlanta and the rest of the planet.
(2) If Dr. Hall and her corps of highly paid assistants and teachers believed these tests were bogus, why did they continually brag about them as proof of their success?
(3) Why didn't they speak out against the tests, when they were in a unique position to do so and were being paid huge salaries to exercise their professional expertise?
(4) Why did they change the results and lie about it?
(5) Why did they continue to pocket large salaries and accumulate pensions based on things they considered to be false and damaging to the children in their charge?
(6) Why did they authorize the expenditure of billions of dollars of public money to further a system they believed to be fundamentally flawed and not in the interests of students or the community?
(7) Why did they persist in doing these things year after year, for a decade?
Aries is hardly apologising for the bullcrap that came out of Dr. Hall's administration. He is simply reinforcing a point of view that I also hold that America's approach to public education for ALL of its children is broken.
Why is it so hard to contemplate that a person can criticize the bad actors in a situation and at the same time criticize the system that enables those bad actors? It's not much different than how people criticized the antics of segregationist politicans during Jim Crow, but focused on the bigger picture of reforming the whole political & social system of the south & America in general.
It is possible to do both, you know. Aries has also pointed out some good solutions to the problems.
Interesting enough, out of the 28 pages of material I've read on this topic by far, I have yet to hear any contructive solutions from the anti-Hall/anti-APS camp on this particular thread...and lord knows I've asked for some.
This thread by far has been nothing more than the typical anti-Atlanta bashathon I've grown used to observing since being a member of city-data. Quite frankly it's depressing, and I can see why so many people that I have befriended over the last 2 years on this site have fallen off.
I'm still waiting for the solutions...but I'm not gonna hold my breath, that's for sure.
Quote:
Originally Posted by arjay57
I'd be the first to agree that standardized tests are not the sole measure of what kids are learning in school.
It's also obvious that teachers and administrators who are obsessed with "teaching to the test" rather than making sure their students can read, write and know basic math, science and social studies are not worth their salt. You don't need a degree in education or a $500,000 salary to know that.
However, here's what the apologists for Dr. Hall and APS are missing:
(1) Standardized tests are one way to assess how students are doing. They're far from perfect, yet they are widely acknowledged as one way of seeing how your kids are doing.
(2) A number of schools in APS -- Mary Lin, Sarah Smith, Springdale Park, etc. -- handled these standardized tests with flying colors and with no cheating whatsoever. This is also true of countless other schools around metro Atlanta and the rest of the planet.
(2) If Dr. Hall and her corps of highly paid assistants and teachers believed these tests were bogus, why did they continually brag about them as proof of their success?
(3) Why didn't they speak out against the tests, when they were in a unique position to do so and were being paid huge salaries to exercise their professional expertise?
(4) Why did they change the results and lie about it?
(5) Why did they continue to pocket large salaries and accumulate pensions based on things they considered to be false and damaging to the children in their charge?
(6) Why did they authorize the expenditure of billions of dollars of public money to further a system they believed to be fundamentally flawed and not in the interests of students or the community?
(7) Why did they persist in doing these things year after year, for a decade?
Last edited by AcidSnake; 07-16-2011 at 04:35 PM..
Some of the posters on this thread are all about hating on Atlanta and its leadership and little else. Nothing but a bunch of "Willie One-notes" on here who focus narrowly in a typically southern-like provincial and vapid way on the people involved and not on the system.
That's why I find it a pointless exercise to even continue this conversation with some of them as they lack the nuanced thought process necessary to even appreciate the reality that there could be other factors contributing to the cheating scandal.
Better you than me, johnatl.
Don't slither around on your belly, like a snake, and retort to me via proxy. Atlanta is going down the drain and more and more people can see it.
Would you like to know what contributed to the cheating? The illusion that history was wrong. The "System" and the "Man" are convenience comforts that allow people to shift the burden of responsibility away from themselves. You are throwing Acid on your own people.. I am trying to help, but that could simply be a "lost cause".
This thread has become such a wasted opportunity. Just like the situation with APS.
The wrong lessons are being learned. Ideas are not being created. The future is once again denied.
Tragic...
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