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Old 08-02-2011, 10:24 AM
 
Location: Midtown Atlanta
4,559 posts, read 2,828,985 times
Reputation: 1611
Quote:
Originally Posted by BringBackCobain View Post
Yeah, some may have a relative advantage, and some may have a relative disadvantage. But those advantages are nothing that cannot be squandered, and those disadvantages are nothing that cannot be overcome. Also, I say relative because I can assure you that there are many people who would kill to be born in America, even if the were born "poor." Try complaining to a young Angolan about these horrendous "disadvantages" and see what he says.
I am quite sure that the Angolan in your example would think a poor American is the most advantaged person she had ever encountered. That, however, does not bear weight on the discussion at hand - what to do, if anything, for our own disadvantaged folks. It is simply not germane.
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Old 08-02-2011, 11:01 AM
 
14,574 posts, read 9,141,099 times
Reputation: 3445
Quote:
Originally Posted by Caleb Longstreet View Post
What makes you think they aren't already paying these expenses? Grady Tax? Fulton County Tax? Income Tax? SS/Medicare/Medicaid Tax? State Income Tax?
You bet I'm paying them, Caleb, and a lot more.

I just want somebody else to tote the load for a while. I'm old and weary and perhaps not that far from the end of my own path.
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Old 08-02-2011, 11:12 AM
 
14,574 posts, read 9,141,099 times
Reputation: 3445
Quote:
Originally Posted by AnsleyPark View Post
No more unfair than what you wrote. Please, define "normal healthy people." There are numerous folks with physical disabilities, mental disabilities, etc. It's a manner of degrees. Fortunately, I can look after my sister. There are many many other disabled people out there who have no families to look after them. They are not throw away people simply because they were born far less fortunate than you and I were.
Folks take so many things for granted. Trust me, you can be fit as a fiddle one day and find yourself struggling with a significant disability the next. The old saying about "There but for grace go I" is mighty true.

And it's a mistake to confuse physical with mental disability. Not that one ranks "higher" than the other, but a lot of times people with a physical problem will be judged as not mentally capable. They may well have the same mental and emotional capacity as anyone else.

Ansley, I am so glad your sister has you to help her. I'm just guessing but I wouldn't be surprised if you said the same thing about her.
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Old 08-02-2011, 11:19 AM
 
1,498 posts, read 1,647,328 times
Reputation: 539
Quote:
Originally Posted by AnsleyPark View Post
I am quite sure that the Angolan in your example would think a poor American is the most advantaged person she had ever encountered. That, however, does not bear weight on the discussion at hand - what to do, if anything, for our own disadvantaged folks. It is simply not germane.
Yes, it does bear weight on the discussion at hand. Those "poor" people should be thanking thier lucky stars they were born in America and have so many resources at hand to make something of themselves. Instead, they demand more and more handouts from taxpayers. I mean, it such a disadvantage to grow up without an Xbox in the home.

Modern Poverty Includes A.C. and an Xbox - By Ken McIntyre - The Corner - National Review Online


Quote:
What is poverty? Americans might well be surprised to learn from other government data that the overwhelming majority of those defined as “poor” by the Census Bureau were well-housed and adequately fed even in the recession year 2009. About 4 percent of them did temporarily become homeless.

Data from the Department of Energy and other agencies show that the average poor family, as defined by Census officials:

● Lives in a home that is in good repair, not crowded, and equipped with air conditioning, clothes washer and dryer, and cable or satellite TV service.

● Prepares meals in a kitchen with a refrigerator, coffee maker and microwave as well as oven and stove.

● Enjoys two color TVs, a DVD player, VCR and — if children are there — an Xbox, PlayStation, or other video game system.

● Had enough money in the past year to meet essential needs, including adequate food and medical care.
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Old 08-02-2011, 11:34 AM
 
Location: Midtown Atlanta
4,559 posts, read 2,828,985 times
Reputation: 1611
Quote:
Originally Posted by BringBackCobain View Post
Yes, it does bear weight on the discussion at hand. Those "poor" people should be thanking thier lucky stars they were born in America and have so many resources at hand to make something of themselves. Instead, they demand more and more handouts from taxpayers. I mean, it such a disadvantage to grow up without an Xbox in the home.

Modern Poverty Includes A.C. and an Xbox - By Ken McIntyre - The Corner - National Review Online
Right, BBC. I'm sure those homeless women and men who sleep in Woodruff Park enjoy the en suite Xbox, air conditioning and roofs over the heads. Oh, I bet the room service is quite nice, too.
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Old 08-02-2011, 12:15 PM
 
Location: ITP - City of Atlanta Proper
6,494 posts, read 6,604,595 times
Reputation: 3661
Quote:
Originally Posted by AnsleyPark View Post
Right, BBC. I'm sure those homeless women and men who sleep in Woodruff Park enjoy the en suite Xbox, air conditioning and roofs over the heads. Oh, I bet the room service is quite nice, too.
Yeah, I am always amazed by the theory that if a poor person has a "luxury" of any sort it is tantamount to being a leech and they do not deserve help. Especially on what amenities someone who is poor may have like running water or air conditioning. For one, what housing developer in their right mind would build a house or apartment without A/C, plumbing, or electrical in the United States? This is the first world, not the third. Aside from that though, in many parts of the county many people go without even those "luxuries". In Baltimore or NYC or Philadelphia or pretty much any city that was big prior to 20th century it is common for people even with good incomes not to have A/C.

On the argument about poor people having Xbox's or TVs, I will not argue that it is not a good idea for someone who is dirt poor to purchase those things, but isn't a conservative mantra that we live in a free market and people should not be restricted from purchasing things with their own money? Oh, that's right, these people are under the impression that those items were purchased with Food Stamps. LOL.

It may not be a good idea, but often those items are purchased by families with what little money they do earn for the benefit of themselves or their children. In other cases they may have those things because they were donated or purchased by a family member or friend who could afford those things. I know I am answering their own question for them, but should we as a society push to remove the ability for poor folks to purchase luxuries? What benefit would that give us? Furthermore, should it be made policy for poor folks to never have money of their own and live a serf-esque life?

But I digress. God forbid poor folks enjoy themselves and live in a place that's not a hovel.
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Old 08-02-2011, 12:24 PM
 
1,498 posts, read 1,647,328 times
Reputation: 539
Quote:
Originally Posted by AnsleyPark View Post
Right, BBC. I'm sure those homeless women and men who sleep in Woodruff Park enjoy the en suite Xbox, air conditioning and roofs over the heads. Oh, I bet the room service is quite nice, too.
So, are we talking about the homeless or the poor? Because they are not necessarily the same. All homeless are poor, but, obviously, not all poor are homeless. In any case, it's kind of hard to be priced out of Atlanta and forced to move to the suburbs if they don't have a home in the first place.
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Old 08-02-2011, 12:30 PM
 
1,498 posts, read 1,647,328 times
Reputation: 539
Quote:
Originally Posted by waronxmas View Post
Yeah, I am always amazed by the theory that if a poor person has a "luxury" of any sort it is tantamount to being a leech and they do not deserve help. Especially on what amenities someone who is poor may have like running water or air conditioning. For one, what housing developer in their right mind would build a house or apartment without A/C, plumbing, or electrical in the United States? This is the first world, not the third. Aside from that though, in many parts of the county many people go without even those "luxuries". In Baltimore or NYC or Philadelphia or pretty much any city that was big prior to 20th century it is common for people even with good incomes not to have A/C.

On the argument about poor people having Xbox's or TVs, I will not argue that it is not a good idea for someone who is dirt poor to purchase those things, but isn't a conservative mantra that we live in a free market and people should not be restricted from purchasing things with their own money? Oh, that's right, these people are under the impression that those items were purchased with Food Stamps. LOL.

It may not be a good idea, but often those items are purchased by families with what little money they do earn for the benefit of themselves or their children. In other cases they may have those things because they were donated or purchased by a family member or friend who could afford those things. I know I am answering their own question for them, but should we as a society push to remove the ability for poor folks to purchase luxuries? What benefit would that give us? Furthermore, should it be made policy for poor folks to never have money of their own and live a serf-esque life?

But I digress. God forbid poor folks enjoy themselves and live in a place that's not a hovel.
Wow, you are so generous with other people's tax dollars. If someone is receiving government assistance, they need to be spending every dime they have getting off it, not viewing it as a permanent source of revenue that frees up other dollars for purchases like an Xbox. A sense of entitlement like the one you harbor is the reason this country is careening toward bankruptcy.
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Old 08-02-2011, 12:39 PM
 
Location: ITP - City of Atlanta Proper
6,494 posts, read 6,604,595 times
Reputation: 3661
Quote:
Originally Posted by BringBackCobain View Post
Wow, you are so generous with other people's tax dollars. If someone is receiving government assistance, they need to be spending every dime they have getting off it, not viewing it as a permanent source of revenue that frees up other dollars for purchases like an Xbox.
I do not disagree that people should do everything they can to get off of government assistance, but it is rather naive to believe that someone receiving government assistance should never buy themselves something they want.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BringBackCobain View Post
A sense of entitlement like the one you harbor is the reason this country is careening toward bankruptcy.
Spare me. We already had a time when there were no government services to help poor people out. All we got were shanty towns, starving children and old folks, and rampant disease. I have no interest in this country returning to that.
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Old 08-02-2011, 01:39 PM
 
14,574 posts, read 9,141,099 times
Reputation: 3445
Quote:
Originally Posted by BringBackCobain View Post
Wow, you are so generous with other people's tax dollars.
In all fairness, you are being awfully chintzy with other people's tax dollars. If you're in school I assume you haven't actually entered the work force yet and strapped these burdens on for yourself.
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