White flight — to the city (Atlanta, Alpharetta: real estate, crime, neighborhood)

[JPD]

Originally Posted by arjay57

By the way, it's not just young folks involved in the "back to the city" movement. I know zillions in their 30s and 40s, and there are a lot of old geezers like me as well.

It's important to remember that this isn't a zero sum game. The fact that cities are experiencing renewed interest doesn't imply that the suburbs are declining. Where people err, in my opinion, is in adopting an air of superiority about where they live. Every location has pluses and minuses.

You're right, it's not just young people. I'll be 40 next year, and I'm currently working towards moving back into the city. If I can sell, it's on. Not looking like it's going to happen this year, but if not we'll try again next spring.

As for pluses and minuses, those can only be defined on an individual basis. A plus to one person is a minus to someone else, and vice versa. And that's why the smugness is a dumb attitude.

[JPD]

Originally Posted by BringBackCobain

I agree people my age wanting to live intown has nothing to do with smugness. But young people wanting to love intown is actually a relatively new trend. The reasons for the shift have been documented and studied, and some reasons include the influence of shows like Friends and the rise of groups like MADD that stigmatized drunk driving. In earlier decades, it seems like the trend was to live in suburban, garden-style apartment complexes (such as Riverbend) and commute into town to go out. Although the coolness factor certainly plays a part in wanting to love intown, I think it became cool because it's just so convenient to live near where you go out.

That's a good point. I don't know when the shift happened, but from my teens until now (beginning in the late '80s), everyone I know who moved out of their parents house either went to the city or to college (which in most cases is a much more urban environment than where they grew up.) Most of them stayed in urban areas, and many of the ones who went back to the suburnbs are now trying to get back to the city.

[vince217]

Originally Posted by JPD

As for 30+ year old whites moving back to the city, they usually do so because they're sick of sitting in traffic and sick of having to get in their car every time they need to leave their house.

this is the reason we moved 'back' into the city, and me and my family are asian.

[rcsteiner]

Originally Posted by arjay57

Speaking of those attitudes, it's also very common for people in the suburbs to look down their noses at us intowners. I don't know how many times on this very forum I've seen people talk about how crappy and substandard they consider the city of Atlanta.

Well, it's not like the City of Atlanta doesn't invite (or deserve) such criticism, at least in some ways. I have nothing but respect for the folks who live ITP. They're braver than I am.

[JPD]

Originally Posted by vince217

this is the reason we moved 'back' into the city, and me and my family are asian.

It's the main reason I'm hoping to move, as well. In hindsight, it probably would have been smarter for me and my wife, after selling our old house in SW Atlanta, to move into an apartment intown, save money VERY aggressively, and after a few years buy a place exactly where we wanted to be all along.

Now, if I had a MARTA station within walking distance, I wouldn't have much desire to move. I like my neighborhood/neighbors, my house, the local restaurants, etc. But the commute, which by Atlanta standards isn't even that bad, isn't how I want to spend my time.

[arjay57]

Originally Posted by rcsteiner

I have nothing but respect for the folks who live ITP. They're braver than I am.

Braver in what sense, RC? I've lived all over the city of Atlanta and haven't had any safety issues except when some jackasses kept stealing the roof off my car 30 years ago. And trust me, we got that resolved without the need for official intervention.

I don't like getting hassled by the bums around Five Points but you don't have that anywhere else in town.

$20 says my neighborhood is as safe as your'n.

[cwlawrence]

Originally Posted by BringBackCobain

I agree people my age wanting to live intown has nothing to do with smugness. But young people wanting to love (sic) intown is actually a relatively new trend.

This is patently wrong. Sorry. Go read Jane Jacobs' "The Death and Life of Great American Cities", first published in 1961. Go back even further, Chicago leading up to and through the 1893 Expo or any city in the US that acted as a "rural collector" of young folk. Jeez, you could probably find documented evidence of young people moving into cities going back to the Greek and Romans. Cities, are and always have been, centers for culture and education, two things young people flock to (and old people too). The only "new" phenomena is people moving into suburbs. This is really a late-19th and 20th century thing, and in my opinion, a temporary one at that. The suburbs, as they are (this part is the important part of my thesis here so don't go misquoting me), are unsustainable.

...

That being said, part of the issue here is not where people choose to live, but where they choose to live in relation to where they work, congregate, socialize, etc. As said before, some suburbs are decent places to live - and I mean live; work, play, sleep. But too many suburbs rely on the civic and cultural institutions of the city, often without paying into the pot that financially and politically supports these places. So, maybe the smugness comes from the feeling that our mooching friends are always wanting to couch surf at our place but always disappear when the bills are due or when we have to do the work to keep things up.

[Cameron H]

Originally Posted by muxBuppie

1. Ofcourse during a recession revenues will fall. We have millions people out of work and businesses shut down!

Right, the recession is why GDP is down. However, K-SawDude is showing you Federal revenue as a percentage of GDP, which is at the lowest rate in 50 years.

2. Your charts don't even include inflation which has constantly risen.

You're probably going to want to take a second look at that.

[JPD]

Originally Posted by cwlawrence

This is patently wrong. Sorry. Go read Jane Jacobs' "The Death and Life of Great American Cities", first published in 1961. Go back even further, Chicago leading up to and through the 1893 Expo or any city in the US that acted as a "rural collector" of young folk. Jeez, you could probably find documented evidence of young people moving into cities going back to the Greek and Romans. Cities, are and always have been, centers for culture and education, two things young people flock to (and old people too). The only "new" phenomena is people moving into suburbs. This is really a late-19th and 20th century thing, and in my opinion, a temporary one at that. The suburbs, as they are (this part is the important part of my thesis here so don't go misquoting me), are unsustainable.

More good points. The garden apartment/young folks moving to the suburbs thing was probably just a short lived trend. I don't know, that wasn't my era. Stories abound though, from way back in history, about young folks wanting to get out of the rural areas and go to the city. It's practicaly it's own genre of novel writing. Before WW2, the choices were much more limited, and most people were either from the city/street car suburbs or the farm.

[tigers84]

Originally Posted by arjay57

Braver in what sense, RC? I've lived all over the city of Atlanta and haven't had any safety issues except when some jackasses kept stealing the roof off my car 30 years ago. And trust me, we got that resolved without the need for official intervention.

I don't like getting hassled by the bums around Five Points but you don't have that anywhere else in town.

$20 says my neighborhood is as safe as your'n.

Maybe your two neighborhoods are equally safe/unsafe. Who knows. But if you think every neighborhood is as safe as every other, well....

How about comparing West End with Alpharetta? Or around the stadium to Habersham Road. Is there no difference in level and/or types of crime?