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Old 09-07-2011, 07:24 PM
 
7,113 posts, read 8,118,048 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gtcorndog View Post
Virginia PolyTech wanted in the ACC for 50 years. The school itself wanted in largely for the academic prestige of being associated with UNC, UVA, Wake, Duke, etc. They finally got in through all sorts of backroom Commonwealth of Virginia strong-arm politics. They are not leaving. As much as we say money dominates all of this, the athletic money is dwarfed by the research and other money generated by the academic side of these schools.
But how strongly are academic alliances influenced by athletic conference affiliations? Research co-operations among institutions know no conference loyalties.

The SEC might be going for 1 or 3 more teams, in which case they might grab one more west team and 2 more east teams. If the SEC raids the ACC and the Big Ten goes for GT, VT might see the ACC like they did the Big East. The ACC has better schools but the SEC ain't to shabby and we're taking about a potentially vulnerable ACC.
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Old 09-07-2011, 07:44 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MathmanMathman View Post
But how strongly are academic alliances influenced by athletic conference affiliations? Research co-operations among institutions know no conference loyalties.

The SEC might be going for 1 or 3 more teams, in which case they might grab one more west team and 2 more east teams. If the SEC raids the ACC and the Big Ten goes for GT, VT might see the ACC like they did the Big East. The ACC has better schools but the SEC ain't to shabby and we're taking about a potentially vulnerable ACC.
BigTen's search is being dominated by academics and market size. They have said that non-AAU members need not apply. That is a pretty small list of schools that meet that bar. The Committee on Institutional Cooperation is a research powerhouse. Who are the members? BigTen schools + Univ of Chicago. Looks pretty darn close to conference bounds to me.

Being associated with UVA, UNC, BC, Wake, Duke, MD, GT among others carries a lot more weight than being associated with Miss State, UK and LSU. I know this is hard to believe to those who live in SEC country, but most places associate it with big diploma mill schools. Virginia Polytech doesn't want to be included in that category and has worked hard through the years to raise their reputation. Their inclusion in the ACC has been huge to them raising their academic profile. Your premise that the SEC is going to raid the ACC is flawed because they are not going to do so. Who are they going to take? FSU, GT, Clemson? Nope. UGA, USC and UF have aligned to block any of these schools. Who else is desirable? UNC, NCSU? They will never leave the ACC. They are charter members and they ARE the ACC in their minds. NCSU lives in UNC's shadow, but not anywhere near the UT-TAMU level that is leading to the Big12 split. Who else is left to leave? Maryland? No chance they leave for the SEC when they could go to the better geographical fit, better academic fit, and better economic fit (BigTen schools get more revenue from their TV contracts than SEC) in the BigTen. Who is left? Wake? LOL. Duke? LOL. UVA? That wine and Cheese crowd would march on Charlottesville with pitchforks if that ever is even mentioned in passing. BC? yeahhhhhhh... Miami? Miami's athletic program is a sinking ship at a small private school that doesn't have an athletic budget to compete at the top level much longer. Miami does not meet the SEC profile at all.

So... No teams are moving from the ACC to SEC. SEC doesn't want the ones that fit the model. Even the ones that fit the model (FSU, GT, Clemson) don't add economic value. VPISU won't leave because they can't politically. I'm going in circles here on this, but trust me. This is something I've followed very closely.
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Old 09-07-2011, 07:47 PM
 
823 posts, read 1,955,670 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MathmanMathman View Post
But how strongly are academic alliances influenced by athletic conference affiliations? Research co-operations among institutions know no conference loyalties.

The SEC might be going for 1 or 3 more teams, in which case they might grab one more west team and 2 more east teams. If the SEC raids the ACC and the Big Ten goes for GT, VT might see the ACC like they did the Big East. The ACC has better schools but the SEC ain't to shabby and we're taking about a potentially vulnerable ACC.
Very highly. Look up the CIC. The research money is very impressive.

Impact

The SEC is very shabby on the Academic side. There are two AAU schools in the SEC (Vandy and UF). The ACC has five (GT, UNC, Duke, Maryland, UVA).

As I said before, VT and UVA are tied together.
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Old 09-07-2011, 09:29 PM
 
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Maryland actually has a relatively high chance of being an SEC school. It's sort of like GT and the Big Ten: it makes sense in a lot of ways. There's zero guarantee Maryland gets invited into the Big Ten, although if they were they'd probably accept that over the SEC. But I doubt they'd turn down an SEC invite just because a Big Ten invite could occur in the future, and I doubt the Big Ten would expand past 12 just to make sure the SEC doesn't get them. Maryland is more of an even number team to the Big Ten, while ND and Texas would be odd number teams: Texas and ND they would actually go through the effort to expand just to get, and then find someone else (like Maryland) to even out the divisions.
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Old 09-08-2011, 09:34 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gtcorndog View Post
BigTen's search is being dominated by academics and market size. They have said that non-AAU members need not apply. That is a pretty small list of schools that meet that bar.
If that is true....how did Nebraska get in? They're not AAU.
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Old 09-08-2011, 09:47 AM
 
7,113 posts, read 8,118,048 times
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Originally Posted by PeteyNice View Post
Very highly. Look up the CIC. The research money is very impressive.

Impact
Those figures are totaling up all of their research grants. To what extent do they really cooperate in research? Schools will work with any other school if it means they can land a grant. Research money is not paid out among the member institutions like it is in sports.

Quote:
The SEC is very shabby on the Academic side. There are two AAU schools in the SEC (Vandy and UF). The ACC has five (GT, UNC, Duke, Maryland, UVA).
VERY shabby? No, the SEC schools are good. The AAU stuff is more of a badge of honor.

Quote:
As I said before, VT and UVA are tied together.
The state of Virginia had to twist UVA's arm to get them to back VT's admission into the ACC. I don't see any reason why they should HAVE to stick together.
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Old 09-08-2011, 11:02 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MathmanMathman View Post
If that is true....how did Nebraska get in? They're not AAU.
Actually...

They were at the time of acceptance to the BigTen.

They were recently kicked out because "Its medical school is under a separate administrative structure, so the research dollars it brings in are not counted by the association. And as a land-grant institution, Nebraska has about a quarter of its faculty involved in agriculture and extension work, and most financing for agricultural research is noncompetitive and so does not count heavily in the groupís ranking. "
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Old 09-08-2011, 11:05 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MathmanMathman View Post


VERY shabby? No, the SEC schools are good. The AAU stuff is more of a badge of honor.
I guess this depends on your definition of good. Apparently ours differ because the SEC schools are average schools at best. Sure they aren't community colleges, but they are closer to that than elite status. They lag behind nearly all ACC and BigTen schools.
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Old 09-08-2011, 11:12 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MathmanMathman View Post
GT in the Big Ten would be like Miami when it was in the Big East. It makes sense in an odd way. GT is now an AAU school which is important to the Big Ten and it would give the Big Ten a piece of the Georgia recruiting grounds which is among the best in the country. And despite the distance, who doesn't know Ohio State, Michigan, Michigan State, Iowa, Purdue, Nebraska, and Penn State. Yet they are unfamiliar rivals. To take on GT would sort of being an acknowledgement by the Big Ten that they are in the dying Rust Belt and are looking to the future. GT's got the money but the travel would be a pain for them.

Notre Dame values its traditional games with USC, Stanford, and Navy, so being in a conference won't allow for much variety in its OOC schedule. Besides, Notre Dame can probably get away with being an independent.

Biggest reason is 30 million dollars a year from the BigTen network. GT gets 30 million a year, Big Ten gets Atl metro market for its tv channel.

If you look at who the big ten is courting it's all in the tv markets.

Notre Dame they feel would give them the NY metro with the large amount of interest there.

Texas would give them Texas.

Missouri would give them St. Louis and KC.

Maryland would give them DC.

These are the teams they are after.
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Old 09-08-2011, 11:38 AM
 
2,407 posts, read 2,610,897 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bellhead View Post
Biggest reason is 30 million dollars a year from the BigTen network. GT gets 30 million a year, Big Ten gets Atl metro market for its tv channel.

If you look at who the big ten is courting it's all in the tv markets.

Notre Dame they feel would give them the NY metro with the large amount of interest there.

Texas would give them Texas.

Missouri would give them St. Louis and KC.

Maryland would give them DC.

These are the teams they are after.

Correct on a lot, but add GT to the mix. ND doesn't deliver anywhere really, but they have a national fan following that makes them appealing. The addition of GT would bring a presence to 5 million in the Atlanta metro area.

Maryland brings in the #9 and #22 markets for about 6.5 million people.

GT brings in the #7 media market with about 4.7 million people.

Missouri has been fighting to get in, but the BigTen keeps stiff-arming them. Sure they bring STL and KC, but they are only #17 and #32 markets for a combined 3.9 million people.

Rutgers is also in play despite a pretty bad sports history due to proximity to NYC and Philly. #1 and #8 media markets.
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