U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > Georgia > Atlanta
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 09-08-2011, 06:39 PM
 
7,113 posts, read 8,146,259 times
Reputation: 1777

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by PeteyNice View Post
Penn State joined the Big Ten in 1990. At the time it joined the Big Ten it had research expenditures in the $350 million range and comparable to the University of Texas and Texas A&M University, both top tier research universities. By 2009, however, Penn State had doubled its research expenditures to $780 million, far surpassing both UT ($580 million) and A&M ($600 million), due in large part to the enhanced academic competition of its peer group in the Big Ten.
That can't necessarily be attributed to being in the CIC. Possibly a spurious correlation. They basically argue a before and after and conclude it must be due to the CIC or in the above, it just made Penn State work harder.

Quote:
The Big 12 has five AAU schools (Texas, A&M, Missouri, Iowa State, Kansas).
And one, Texas A&M, jumped to the SEC. Why would Texas A&M supposedly drop down to a lower "academic sphere"? A&M probably considers the SEC their peer.

Quote:
Oh, I don't know, how about playing in an AQ conference? Virginia made sure that VaTech did not stay in a conference whose future was uncertain, why would they not do the same for UVA?
UVA wasn't doing the "favor", the state of Virginia was. It's unlikely that VT leaving for the SEC will imperil the ACC's AQ so VT need not feel any guilt that they owe UVA a favor. UVA didn't want VT in the ACC in the first place.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 09-08-2011, 06:51 PM
 
823 posts, read 1,960,106 times
Reputation: 424
Quote:
Originally Posted by MathmanMathman View Post
That can't necessarily be attributed to being in the CIC. Possibly a spurious correlation. They basically argue a before and after and conclude it must be due to the CIC or in the above, it just made Penn State work harder.
I have actual numbers which you cannot dispute. Can you prove it was something else?

Quote:
And one, Texas A&M, jumped to the SEC. Why would Texas A&M supposedly drop down to a lower "academic sphere"? A&M probably considers the SEC their peer.
A&M has done nothing yet. Notice that they only talk about the sports aspects of moving to the SEC. There is never any talk about academics.

Quote:
UVA wasn't doing the "favor", the state of Virginia was. It's unlikely that VT leaving for the SEC will imperil the ACC's AQ so VT need not feel any guilt that they owe UVA a favor. UVA didn't want VT in the ACC in the first place.
VT leaving the ACC weakens the conference and certainly puts it in peril. I don't see any reason that Virginia wouldn't step up for UVA the way it stepped up for VT.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-08-2011, 07:29 PM
 
7,113 posts, read 8,146,259 times
Reputation: 1777
Quote:
Originally Posted by PeteyNice View Post
I have actual numbers which you cannot dispute. Can you prove it was something else?
The numbers don't prove anything other than Penn State increased its research more than Texas and Texas A&M. There is no proof offered as to why other than to suggest a cause and effect. I could offer that Joab Thomas became president of Penn State in 1990 followed by Graham Spanier in 1995. One or both of these men could be responsible. A university president that emphasizes research will make a bigger impact.

Quote:
A&M has done nothing yet. Notice that they only talk about the sports aspects of moving to the SEC. There is never any talk about academics.
Texas A&M is not throwing out feelers as to what they might do. They had every intention of joining the SEC. The university president makes this kind of decision, so somewhere in the process I'm sure the issue of academics crossed his mind.


Quote:
VT leaving the ACC weakens the conference and certainly puts it in peril. I don't see any reason that Virginia wouldn't step up for UVA the way it stepped up for VT.
Because we saw that the Big East survived a much bigger hit than the ACC would suffer. Might as well argue that bad coaching at VT would imperil the ACC's AQ. And even if true, the state of Virginia knows that the ACC could raid the Big East like it did twice before and there are plenty of good apples there. Syracuse was anxious to go back then. Shoot Pitt has a strong basketball program to boot and they are AAU.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-08-2011, 07:59 PM
 
52,921 posts, read 76,005,832 times
Reputation: 11674
Quote:
Originally Posted by gtcorndog View Post
None add TV sets for the conferences that might consider them. ACC and SEC both already have Florida locked up due to their existing teams in those states. There is no nead for the ACC to add another school in FL due to FSU and Miami. SEC has Florida. There is no value added by adding a UCF or USF for either conference.

Louisville is in a similar situation. UK brings Kentucky markets to the SEC. The ACCand BigTen have no interest in a commuter school with no academic reputation like Louisville. Additionally, Louisville doesn't bring media markets on the scale of the other schools being targeted for potential moves.

Those schools oyu mentioned are not being targeted/mentioned for valid reasons.
I don't know of another choice, unless the SEC goes with say University of Houston or can convince maybe TCU to join somehow. I doubt that the NC or VA schools would join due to being set up in good situations currently.

Then, I just heard that the Big East might look into getting Missouri and the Kansas schools if the Big 12 breaks up. So, things in terms of geography might get crazy.

Maybe the SEC would wait on startup programs like Old Dominion, GA State and the potential UNC Charlotte program to fast track themselves in order to join the league. West Virginia or Maryland might work somehow. Texas-San Antonio is starting a program soon as well, with games being played at the Alamo Dome.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-08-2011, 08:07 PM
 
52,921 posts, read 76,005,832 times
Reputation: 11674
I guess another possibility is to convince a program like Appalachian State(NC school) or VA schools like Richmond, James Madison or William and Mary to upgrade their programs. Actually, the VA schools mentioned play in thectop league in the D1 subdivision, the Colonial Athletic Association and have beaten the major VA schools in Football recently.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-18-2011, 07:43 PM
 
7,113 posts, read 8,146,259 times
Reputation: 1777
Some more dominoes have fallen. Pitt and Syracuse will go to the ACC and UConn and Rutgers are rumored to follow.

But wait, there's more.

The Big Ten might be interested in Rutgers too so the ACC might have to pickup yet another school if they are going for a "super conference". And there's even a chance that Georgia Tech will go to the Big Ten as the Big Ten is looking for new markets, new recruiting grounds outside of the rust belt, and there just aren't that many AAU schools to go around.

And the missing east school for the SEC might be West Virginia. They have great athletics but are weak in both market size and academics. The strongest rumors I've heard are for Florida State but the "gentleman's agreement" between Georgia, South Carolina, and Florida might keep out Georgia Tech, Clemson, and Florida State. Unless of course, the SEC wants to block the Big Ten and take GT.

I just don't have a sense of whether or not GT would go for the Big Ten or not. They'd have a lot more travel and can they be sure to have Penn State, Michigan, and Ohio State every year?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-18-2011, 08:17 PM
 
2,407 posts, read 2,619,975 times
Reputation: 903
No team will be leaving the ACC. The ACC has killed the Big East and has secured its spot as one of the eventual 4 mega-conferences. Rutgers and UConn are Plan B for the ACC. They are good at 14 right now and are going to work hard on ND and even Penn State to see if they can pull off something big. UConn and Rutgers will likely be available if the ACC ever comes calling on them. I'm not sure if the ACC can pull either of those off, but if they do, they will likely get a media deal that would at least be equal to the BigTen's. Penn State has always dreamed of an East Coast Conference where they could play their traditional rivals of MD, Syracuse, Pitt, UVA, etc. Perhaps that is set-up now. It is pure speculation, but there is some smoke starting to be seen and a lot of talk on the subject. A few links talking about this stuff:

ACC additions could be only the start

Notre Dame needs to change with the times | The News-Sentinel - Fort Wayne IN

The ACC school presidents voted 12-0 to up the exit fee to $20 million. That is too much to leave now.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-18-2011, 08:57 PM
 
7,113 posts, read 8,146,259 times
Reputation: 1777
Quote:
Originally Posted by gtcorndog View Post
No team will be leaving the ACC. The ACC has killed the Big East and has secured its spot as one of the eventual 4 mega-conferences. Rutgers and UConn are Plan B for the ACC. They are good at 14 right now and are going to work hard on ND and even Penn State to see if they can pull off something big. UConn and Rutgers will likely be available if the ACC ever comes calling on them. I'm not sure if the ACC can pull either of those off, but if they do, they will likely get a media deal that would at least be equal to the BigTen's. Penn State has always dreamed of an East Coast Conference where they could play their traditional rivals of MD, Syracuse, Pitt, UVA, etc. Perhaps that is set-up now. It is pure speculation, but there is some smoke starting to be seen and a lot of talk on the subject. A few links talking about this stuff:

ACC additions could be only the start

Notre Dame needs to change with the times | The News-Sentinel - Fort Wayne IN

The ACC school presidents voted 12-0 to up the exit fee to $20 million. That is too much to leave now.
I just don't see Penn State leaving the Big Ten. They've got it good there and quite frankly, Ohio State and Michigan are their peer institutions. The Big Ten is their perfect fit. I was surprised that JoePa essentially dropped the game with Pitt and apparently replaced it with a new in-state "rival" Temple. Pitt is to Penn State what Georgia Tech is to Georgia. I think JoePa gave Pitt an offer it couldn't accept, a 1-and-2 with the 2 games in State College. Imagine GT accepting a 1-and-2 with UGA.

Notre Dame has their must-have games. Navy, USC, and Stanford. They also have Big Ten rival teams too so I don't see how the ACC could entice them. So they might try to continue their independence as they can schedule whoever they want. They might however have a problem with their other sports as they are now in the Big East and they might not like how things are shaping up. But if they go anywhere, it would be the Big Ten. Either that or the ACC gives ND the same deal that the Big East did, all sports except football.

$20 million is pricey, but I bet GT could swing it if the Big Ten deal was good enough. Bud Peterson might have reluctantly agreed to raising the exit fee because to do otherwise would show his hand.

Last edited by MathmanMathman; 09-18-2011 at 09:58 PM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-18-2011, 09:05 PM
 
3,209 posts, read 4,525,302 times
Reputation: 1732
The Big10 payout will always be higher than the ACC--no number of Big East teams will change that.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-18-2011, 09:40 PM
 
3,390 posts, read 2,974,543 times
Reputation: 3244
Quote:
Originally Posted by MathmanMathman View Post
I just don't see Penn State leaving the Big Ten. They've got it good there and quite frankly, Ohio State and Michigan are their peer institutions. The Big Ten is their perfect fit. I was surprised that JoePa essentially dropped the game with Pitt and apparently replaced it with a new in-state "rival" Temple. Pitt is to Penn State what Georgia Tech is to Georgia. I think JoePa gave Pitt an offer it couldn't accept, a 1-and-2 with the 2 games in State College. Imagine GT accepting a 1-and-2 with UGA.

Notre Dame has their must-have games. Navy, USC, and Stanford. They also have Big Ten rival teams too so I don't see how the ACC could entice them. So they might try to continue their independence as they can schedule whoever they want. They might however have a problem with their other sports as their are now in the Big East and they might not like how things are shaping up. But if they go anywhere, it would be the Big Ten. Either that or the ACC gives ND the same deal that the Big East did, all sports except football.

$20 million is pricey, but I bet GT could swing it if the Big Ten deal was good enough. Bud Peterson might have reluctantly agreed to raising the exit fee because to do otherwise would show his hand.
It would not be a wise move for GT, recruting is tough enough against ACC and SEC schools now, then to be basically removed from that footprint is suicide. The B1G is overrated, they haven't won a national championship in football, basketball or baseball in 10 years. And as a bad as people make the "weak" ACC out to be, their bowl record is better than the B1G the last few years and the ACC is the one conference that competes/beats SEC schools in CFB. Sure, the SEC is king but not worlds better as the media portrays. After all NC, VA, etc are really geographically and demographically southeastern states, it is the same players/talent. The ACC's problem is that top tier schools went through coaching deficiencies at the same time...a perfect storm for subpar BCS performance.

Basically, the population trend is southward, not northward and GT would be a fool to consider a conference change, the B1G is living off tradition and rust belt markets, sooner or later you gotta start winning, thus far they've gotten a pass; even the weak ACC who has won 5 of the last 10 CBB championsips (pre Syracuse and UConn).

We all know it's about CFB, but CBB in the big eastern markets ain't chump change.

Penn State will not leave the Big Ten, Notre Dame and Texas are snobby enough to be ACC schools, but too high-faluten for their own good.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:


Options
X
Data:
Loading data...
Based on 2000-2016 data
Loading data...

123
Hide US histogram

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > Georgia > Atlanta
Similar Threads
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2018, Advameg, Inc.

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top