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Old 03-13-2012, 12:10 PM
 
15,201 posts, read 9,945,774 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cqholt View Post
How do you know that it won;t be used? We will not find out till the streetcar is built and running. I believe it will be a success and carry far more riders than anticipated.
That's entirely possible. I don't remember who said "Build it and they will come" but you can see how that might work. On any given day there are plenty of people walking around downtown and I'm sure many of them will welcome a place to sit down and travel to their destination on a sleek modern streetcar.

Consider what it has done in cities like Portland and Toronto. It's pretty hard to argue with success.
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Old 03-13-2012, 12:39 PM
 
Location: ITP - City of Atlanta Proper
6,558 posts, read 6,930,796 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arjay57 View Post
That's entirely possible. I don't remember who said "Build it and they will come" but you can see how that might work. On any given day there are plenty of people walking around downtown and I'm sure many of them will welcome a place to sit down and travel to their destination on a sleek modern streetcar.

Consider what it has done in cities like Portland and Toronto. It's pretty hard to argue with success.
Yeah, we should be really positive about the usage of the first leg of the restored streetcars for a number of factors.

-It'll connect two huge tourist attractions/districts at street level. While MARTA has stations that run the entire length of this, the stations are a few blocks South from the main attractions and riding the train removes people from the street level. With this line it'll encourage people to explorer as well as spur development.

-Covers most of GSU's campus

-Around ~40,000 office and government workers in the immediate area.

You also alluded to another good point is that streetcars can be very successful when used as an addendum to an existing system. Toronto, Boston, San Francisco, and Philadelphia all augment their subway systems with streetcars and eventually we'll be in the same boat. I would be less enthusiastic if this was the start of rail mass transit.
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Old 03-13-2012, 01:23 PM
 
Location: Kirkwood
7,573 posts, read 4,342,168 times
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Quote:
Toronto, Boston, San Francisco, and Philadelphia all augment their subway systems with streetcars and eventually we'll be in the same boat. I would be less enthusiastic if this was the start of rail mass transit.
This will be the start of streetcars in Atlanta becoming the last mile connection for HRT. The BeltLine will be the ultimate last mile connection for Atlanta.
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Old 03-13-2012, 08:54 PM
 
2,392 posts, read 1,394,806 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cqholt View Post
How do you know that it won;t be used? We will not find out till the streetcar is built and running. I believe it will be a success and carry far more riders than anticipated. The Streetcar line is thru the middle of GSU.
Buy 20 of the nicest buses you can buy for $10 million. You'd save $86 million in capital expenditure.
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Old 03-14-2012, 03:50 AM
 
Location: atlanta
2,645 posts, read 1,877,341 times
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for some reason people don't like buses. they make noise, pollution (although ours here in atlanta are considerably better than most in that respect), and there's a connotation with "having to ride the bus" versus wanting to ride it. i didn't write the rules, i don't know why this is. but for some reason streetcars and rail lines get more traffic— don't ask me why.
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Old 03-14-2012, 07:24 AM
 
369 posts, read 336,766 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gt6974a View Post
You could take the $94 million and subtract $93.9 million and just add 'Trolleys' like GT has now. They run from the Midtown Marta station to campus and back. Basically the same thing this is supposed to do and they look like 'street cars'.

I just don't get it.
Yeah right, what hole did you pull those costs out of? Let alone maintenance and replacement for the buses and wear and tear on the roads, when all is said and done they'll cost about the same but without the much cooler "choo-choo". that has been known to spur great economic development and lure companies unlike a glorified bus.
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Old 03-14-2012, 08:58 AM
 
Location: Kirkwood
7,573 posts, read 4,342,168 times
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Streetcars present something that buses cannot. It is subliminal to people in America that only 'poor people' ride buses. Rail based transit is more popular. The money being used from the City of Atlanta was going to be used for roadwork on that corridor anyways so the money was applied to the project as part of resurfacing and sidewalk repair. No other city or county in Metro Atlanta paid any money towards this project.
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Old 03-14-2012, 09:22 AM
 
Location: New Orleans
1,224 posts, read 1,060,549 times
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There is definitely a psychological preference for rail (both heavy and light) over buses. Many studies have shown this, and I can also say that it is true in my case. I'm not sure why, but people just like rail more. Perhaps some of it is the notion (whether or not it is true) that buses are for those of lower economic means. Maybe it is b/c rail often has a dedicated path and isn't held up by traffic.

Rail also encourages development in a way that buses don't, probably b/c a rail line is more permanent than a bus line which can be changed at any time.

I think this is a good project for Atlanta, though I'm still not crazy about the specifics of the route and I think it should go further north to be closer to the Aquarium, World of Coke, and future Center for Civil and Human Rights. I will certainly give it a spin when it is operational.
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Old 03-14-2012, 12:19 PM
 
Location: Kirkwood
7,573 posts, read 4,342,168 times
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Quote:
I think this is a good project for Atlanta, though I'm still not crazy about the specifics of the route and I think it should go further north to be closer to the Aquarium, World of Coke, and future Center for Civil and Human Rights. I will certainly give it a spin when it is operational.
The TSPLOST has the BeltLine connecting to both ends of the Downtown Streetcar to have it run next to the Aquarium and past King Center.http://www.beltline.org/Portals/26/Transportation%20Referendum%20Map%20Dec%202011.pdf (broken link)
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Old 03-14-2012, 12:44 PM
 
Location: New Orleans
1,224 posts, read 1,060,549 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cqholt View Post
The TSPLOST has the BeltLine connecting to both ends of the Downtown Streetcar to have it run next to the Aquarium and past King Center.http://www.beltline.org/Portals/26/Transportation%20Referendum%20Map%20Dec%202011.pdf (broken link)
Thanks for the link cqholt. My understanding is that the Beltline is the white path (on that map) that encircles the city, and that it will (hopefully) one day have a lightrail aspect. Looking at that map, it appears the light blue that goes by the Aquarium is in the "City Transit Initiatives" category. I'm not sure what that means. Is it supposed to be a second streetcar or lightrail line?

Even if all of this gets built (big if), I still think it would make more sense for the streetcar to link the King Center and the Aquarium/Coke/Civil Rights Center. People will not want to take the streetcar 80% of the way then take another, different form of transportation the last 20%.
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